W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-lod@w3.org > February 2013

Re: Content negotiation for Turtle files

From: Bernard Vatant <bernard.vatant@mondeca.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 14:30:50 +0100
Message-ID: <CAK4ZFVFU57k7--JkSzS=gv8Ub5aifv+NSZf=kzdhDBTfki7Kmg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
Cc: public-lod@w3.org
Thanks Kingsley!

Was about to answer but you beat me at it :)

But Richard, could you elaborate on this view that hand-written and
machine-processible data would not fit together?

I don't feel like "people are still writing far too many Linked Data
examples and resources by hand". On the opposite seems to me we have seen
so far too many linked data produced by (more or less dumb or smart)
programs, without their human "productors" (so to speak) always checking
too much for quality in the process, provided they can proudly announce
that they have produced so many billions of triples ... so many, actually,
that nobody will ever be able to assess their quality whatsoever :)

Of course migrating automagically heaps of legacy data and making them
available as linked data is great, but as Kingsley puts it, linked data are
not only about machines talking to machines, it's also about enabling
people to talk to machines as simply as possible, and the other way round.
That's where Turtle fits.


2013/2/6 Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>

>  On 2/6/13 6:45 AM, Richard Light wrote:
> On 06/02/2013 10:59, Bernard Vatant wrote:
> More ??? Well, I was heading the other way round actually for sake of
> simplicity. As said before I've used RDF/XML for years despite all
> criticisms, and was happy with it (the devil you know etc). What I
> understand of the current trend is that to ease RDF and linked data
> adoption we should promote now this simple, both human-readable and
> machine-friendly publication syntax (Turtle). And having tried it for a
> while, I now begin to be convinced enough as to adopt it in publication -
> thanks to continuing promotion by Kingsley among others :)
> And now you tell me I should still bother to provide n other formats,
> RDF/XML and more. I thought I was about to simplify my life, you tell me I
> have to make the simple things, *plus* the more complex ones as before.
> Hmm.
> Well I for one would make a plea to keep RDF/XML in the portfolio. Turtle
> is only machine-processible if you happen to have a Turtle parser in your
> tool box.
> I'm quite happily processing Linked Data resources as XML, using only XSLT
> and a forwarder which adds Accept headers to an HTTP request. It thereby
> allows me to grab and work with LD content (including SPARQL query results)
> using the standard XSLT document() function.
> In a web development context, JSON would probably come second for me as a
> practical proposition, in that it ties in nicely with widely-supported
> javascript utilities.
> To me, Turtle is symptomatic of a world in which people are still writing
> far too many Linked Data examples and resources by hand, and want something
> that is easier to hand-write than RDF/XML.  I don't really see how that
> fits in with the promotion of the idea of machine-processible web-based
> data.
> Richard
> --
> *Richard Light*
> If people can't express data by hand we are on a futile mission. The era
> of over bearing applications placing artificial barriers between users and
> their data is over. Just as the same applies to overbearing schemas and
> database management systems.
> This isn't about technology for programmers. Its about technology for
> everyone. Just as everyone is able to write on a piece of paper today, as a
> mechanism for expressing and sharing data, information, and knowledge.
> It is absolutely mandatory that folks be able to express triple based
> statements (propositions) by hand. This is the key to making Linked Data
> and the broader Semantic Web vision a natural reality.
> We have to remember that content negotiation (implicit or explicit) is a
> part of this whole deal.
> Vapour was built at a time when RDF/XML was the default format of choice.
> That's no longer the case, but it doesn't mean RDF/XML is dead either, its
> just means its no longer the default. As I've said many times, RDF/XML is
> the worst and best thing that ever happened to the Semantic Web vision.
> Sadly, the worst aspect has dominated the terrain for years and created
> artificial inertia by way of concept obfuscation.
> If your consumer prefers data in RDF/XML format then it can do one of the
> following:
> 1. Locally transform the Turtle to RDF/XML -- assuming this is all you can
> de-reference from a given URI
> 2. Transform the Turtle to RDF/XML via a transformation service (these
> exist and they are RESTful) -- if your user agent can't perform the
> transformation.
> The subtleties of Linked Data are best understood via Turtle.
> --
> Regards,
> Kingsley Idehen	
> Founder & CEO
> OpenLink Software
> Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
> Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
> Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
> Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
> LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
*Bernard Vatant
Vocabularies & Data Engineering
Tel :  + 33 (0)9 71 48 84 59
 Skype : bernard.vatant
Blog : the wheel and the hub <http://blog.hubjects.com/>
*Mondeca**          **                   *
3 cité Nollez 75018 Paris, France
Follow us on Twitter : @mondecanews <http://twitter.com/#%21/mondecanews>

Meet us at Documation <http://www.documation.fr/> in Paris, March 20-21
Received on Wednesday, 6 February 2013 13:31:39 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Wednesday, 7 January 2015 15:16:29 UTC