W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-lod@w3.org > June 2012

Re: Can we create better links by playing games?

From: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:51:45 -0400
Message-ID: <4FE39771.40209@openlinksw.com>
To: public-lod@w3.org
On 6/21/12 4:59 PM, Elena Simperl wrote:
> Am 21.06.2012 00:19, schrieb Oscar Corcho:
>> Sorry that I have not been able to follow this thread, but now that 
>> Elena pointed out to some work that we have been doing in the 
>> validation of geographical links, I can share my view.
>>
>> In my opinion it is not always easy to generate a game with a purpose 
>> that actually engages people in some of these tasks, and the 
>> difficulty lies exactly in finding good games for that. I was trying 
>> the ones sent by Jens but could not find easily what to do, but this 
>> doesn't mean anything else than given how busy I was when checking I 
>> had not enough time to spend on trying to understand well the game (I 
>> am probably not the person that this type of game is addressing).
>>
>> In the meantime, anyway, I think that using some form of "human 
>> computation" is still something that can be applied (we are doing it 
>> successfully for our link validation tasks for linked geographical 
>> data, as pointed by Elena here 
>> http://oegdev.dia.fi.upm.es:8080/sameAs/, and people are very good at 
>> checking those things).
>>
>> Oscar
>>
>> PS: Again, sorry for having missed the thread and not being able to 
>> read through it quickly given the high traffic that it has generated. 
>> I hope not to have repeated something that was already said, or not 
>> to open many other threads ;-)
> I think that both Oscar and Martin are right that finding a good game 
> plot for arbitrary Semantic Web or Linked Data tasks is not trivial; 
> the enthusiasm that this community shows to the general idea of 
> gamification is understandable, but one needs to be aware of the 
> risks. Putting aside the fact that it is not always obvious why 
> certain games are successful and other not (it still remains an art, 
> more than just engineering...), games development can be highly 
> costly, especially if you want to add more badges and other gimmicks  
> any other time so that players do not get bored and leave. 

How is this different from any kind of software development? How is it 
different from the production of movies or music? Is success guaranteed? 
I don't think so.

> I would disagree that domains like biology cannot be addressed with 
> this approach. Examples such as Eterna [1], FoldIt [2] and Philo [3] 
> demonstrate the opposite; astronomy, cultural heritage and media 
> provide other examples, but what all these success stories share is, 
> besides an excellent idea for a game plot, a real problem in a given 
> vertical domain which the community of interest associated with that 
> domain (be that experts or laymen) is intrinsically motivated to solve. 

Yes. But doesn't that contradict your opening? There is nothing about 
"Linked Data" and "The Semantic Web Project" that is subject matter 
domain specific. Get right game for doctors and we have better doctors, 
get the right game for electorates and we get better elections en route 
to better representational government etc..


> The approach that the Semantic Web field is following is less 
> convincing, because we first pick an abstract task (say, interlinking 
> or information extraction) and then build a game in some (sometimes 
> arbitrarily chosen) domain, without having direct access to the 
> domain-specific communities of interest, who would be the actual players.

If that were how it was done, I would agree with you. But that simply 
isn't how its done. There isn't a single game created in the history of 
mankind that wasn't data driven. Why do the literals "Linked Data" and 
"Semantic Web" somehow make that different? Today, every time you share 
a link you are participating in a global multi-player game. Ditto every 
time you tweet etc..

All we seek is a virtuous cycle that ultimately makes everyone make more 
productive use of scarce time. It's that or reality TV, stupid political 
shows distributed by media companies that can only survive on an 
exponentially dumbed down audience, dysfunctional government, and a 
broken global economy.

We are reading too much into Linked Data and The Semantic Web. The GAME 
is just about Data Representation, Access, Integration, Manipulation, 
and Dissemination aka. computing.

Kingsley
>
> [1] http://eterna.cmu.edu/
> [2] http://fold.it/
> [3] http://phylo.cs.mcgill.ca
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> Oscar Corcho
>>
>> Ontology Engineering Group (OEG)
>>
>> Departamento de Inteligencia Artificial
>>
>> Facultad de Informática
>>
>> Campus de Montegancedo s/n
>>
>> Boadilla del Monte-28660 Madrid, España
>>
>> Tel. (+34) 91 336 66 05
>>
>> Fax  (+34) 91 352 48 19
>>
>>
>> De: Elena Simperl <elena.simperl@aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de 
>> <mailto:elena.simperl@aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de>>
>> Fecha: miércoles 20 de junio de 2012 17:49
>> Para: Gannon Dick <gannon_dick@yahoo.com <mailto:gannon_dick@yahoo.com>>
>> CC: Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:melvincarvalho@gmail.com>>, Leigh Dodds <leigh@ldodds.com 
>> <mailto:leigh@ldodds.com>>, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com 
>> <mailto:kidehen@openlinksw.com>>, "public-lod@w3.org 
>> <mailto:public-lod@w3.org>" <public-lod@w3.org 
>> <mailto:public-lod@w3.org>>, Oscar Corcho <ocorcho@fi.upm.es 
>> <mailto:ocorcho@fi.upm.es>>
>> Asunto: Re: Can we create better links by playing games?
>> Nuevo envío de: <public-lod@w3.org <mailto:public-lod@w3.org>>
>> Fecha de nuevo envío: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:50:10 +0000
>>
>> Am 20.06.2012 17:10, schrieb Gannon Dick:
>>> I think the "games" are very helpful for geo classification.  Meta 
>>> data links are a monte carlo integration.  The further you step back 
>>> to include more identifiers the less discriminating the identifiers 
>>> become, and some may be ignored, or replaced with an unlinked 
>>> generic substitution.  The worldview of a Football Fan and a 
>>> Government Policy Wonk don't begin the same, but they can end with 
>>> the same organization.
>>> http://www.rustprivacy.org/2012/cctld/psp/
>>>
>>> I really liked the SmartCities idea.
>>> --Gannon
>> There is also work done by UPM in Madrid on validating links between 
>> geospatial data sets using human computation
>>
>> http://oegdev.dia.fi.upm.es:8080/sameAs/ (just pick a random user id, 
>> and a data set).
>>
>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> *From:* Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
>>> *To:* Leigh Dodds <leigh@ldodds.com>
>>> *Cc:* Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>; public-lod@w3.org
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 20, 2012 8:51 AM
>>> *Subject:* Re: Can we create better links by playing games?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 20 June 2012 15:46, Leigh Dodds <leigh@ldodds.com 
>>> <mailto:leigh@ldodds.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 2:19 PM, Melvin Carvalho
>>>     <melvincarvalho@gmail.com <mailto:melvincarvalho@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>     > On 20 June 2012 15:11, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com
>>>     <mailto:kidehen@openlinksw.com>> wrote:
>>>     >>
>>>     >> On 6/19/12 3:23 PM, Martin Hepp wrote:
>>>     >>>
>>>     >>> [1] Games with a Purpose for the Semantic Web, IEEE
>>>     Intelligent Systems,
>>>     >>> Vol. 23, No. 3, pp. 50-60, May/June 2008.
>>>     >>
>>>     >>
>>>     >> Do the games at: http://ontogame.sti2.at/games/, still work?
>>>     The more data
>>>     >> quality oriented games the better re. LOD and the Semantic
>>>     Web in general.
>>>     >>
>>>     >> Others: Are there any other games out there?
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>     > iand is working on a game:
>>>     >
>>>     > http://blog.iandavis.com/2012/05/21/wolfie/
>>>
>>>     Is that relevant? :)
>>>
>>>
>>> I guess I was reaching a bit there :)
>>>
>>> I think it's just a fun project at the moment.  But you never know 
>>> how things will develop, look at the explosion of minecraft.  Also 
>>> written by one of the top linked data experts in the world ... so 
>>> you can only hope! :)
>>>
>>> One thing that I think could be really good is if inked geo browser 
>>> (also aksw) were somehow gamified.
>>>
>>>
>>>     L.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Dr. Elena Simperl
>> Assistant Professor
>> Karlsruhe Institute of Technology
>> t: +49 721 608 45778
>> m: +49 1520 1600994
>> e:elena.simperl@kit.edu
>
>
> -- 
> Dr. Elena Simperl
> Assistant Professor
> Karlsruhe Institute of Technology
> t: +49 721 608 45778
> m: +49 1520 1600994
> e:elena.simperl@kit.edu


-- 

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen	
Founder & CEO
OpenLink Software
Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen







Received on Thursday, 21 June 2012 21:52:12 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Sunday, 31 March 2013 14:24:40 UTC