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Re: The truth about SPARQL Endpoint availability

From: Ian Davis <lists@iandavis.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 11:57:00 +0000
Message-ID: <AANLkTim_ruBjGtuZ_HGFWRtycteUoXfSG3CkLsZL=vdA@mail.gmail.com>
To: public-lod@w3.org
Cc: Bill Roberts <bill@swirrl.com>, Hugh Glaser <hg@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, Tim Berners-Lee <timbl@w3.org>
Is the number of triples that important? With all respect to the
people on this list, I think there's a tendency to obsess over triple
counts. Aren't we past that bootstrap phase of being awed when we see
millions of triples being produced?  I thought we'd moved towards
being more focussed on quality and utility of data than sheer numbers?

Besides, for me the most interesting datasets are those that are
continually changing as they reflect the real world and I'd like to
see us work towards metrics for freshness and coverage.


On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 11:20 AM, Tim Berners-Lee <timbl@w3.org> wrote:
> Maybe the count of triples should be special-cased in the sparql server code,
> spotted on input and the store size returned.
> if it is reasonable for the endpoint to keep track of the size of its store.
> (Do they anyway?)
>
> Tim
>
> On 2011-03 -05, at 11:58, Bill Roberts wrote:
>
>> Thanks Hugh - as someone running a couple of SPARQL endpoints, I'd certainly prefer if people don't run a global count too often (or at all). It is indeed something that makes typical SPARQL implementations work very hard.
>>
>> But it's a good reminder we should provide an alternative and i'll look into providing triple counts in voiD.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>> On 5 Mar 2011, at 15:14, Hugh Glaser wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> On 5 Mar 2011, at 14:22, Andrea Splendiani wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I think it depends on the store, I've tried some (from the endpoint list) and some returns a answer pretty quickly. Some doesn't and some doesn't support count.
>>>> However, one could have this information only for the stores that answers the count query, no need to try all time.
>>> I am happy for a store implementor or owner to disagree, but I find it very unlikely that the owner of a store with a decent chunk of data (> 1M triples, say) would be happy for someone to keep issuing such a query, even if they did decide to give enough resources to execute it.
>>> I would quickly blacklist such a site.
>>>>
>>>> VoID:
>>>> is this a good query:
>>>> select * where {?s <http://rdfs.org/ns/void#numberOfTriples> ?o }
>>>
>>> I'm no SPARQL or voiD guru, but I think you need a bit more wrapping in the scovo stuff, so more like:
>>>
>>> SELECT DISTINCT ?endpoint ?uri ?triples ?uris WHERE
>>>          { ?ds a void:Dataset .
>>>            ?ds void:sparqlEndpoint ?uri .
>>>            ?ds rdfs:label ?endpoint .
>>>            ?ds void:statItem [ scovo:dimension void:numberOfTriples ; rdf:value  ?triples ] .
>>>         }
>>>
>>> Try it at
>>> http://kwijibo.talis.com/voiD/
>>> or
>>> http://void.rkbexplorer.com/
>>>
>>> I guess Pierre-Yves might like to enhance his page by querying a voiD store to also give basic stats.
>>> Or someone might like to do a store reporter that uses (a) voiD endpoint(s) plus Pierre-Yves's data (he has a SPARQL endpoint), to do so.
>>> And maybe the CKAN endpoint would have extra useful data as well.
>>> A real Semantic Web application that queried more than one SPARQL endpoint - now that would be a novelty!
>>> Fancy the challenge, it is the weekend?! :-)
>>>
>>> ciao
>>> Hugh
>>>
>>>>
>>>> it doesn't seem viable if so.
>>>>
>>>> ciao,
>>>> Andrea
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Il giorno 05/mar/2011, alle ore 13.49, Hugh Glaser ha scritto:
>>>>
>>>>> NIce idea, but,... :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> SELECT (count(*) as ?c) WHERE {?s ?p ?o}
>>>>>
>>>>> is a pretty anti-social thing to do to a store.
>>>>> At best, a store of any size will spend a while thinking, and then quite rightly decide they have burnt enough resources, and return some sort of error.
>>>>>
>>>>> For a properly maintained site, of course, the VoiD description will give lots of similar information.
>>>>> Best
>>>>> Hugh
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5 Mar 2011, at 13:06, Andrea Splendiani wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi, very nice!
>>>>>> I have a small suggestion:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> why don't you ask "count(*) where {?s ?p ?o}" to the endpoint ?
>>>>>> Or ask for the number of graphs ?
>>>>>> Both information, number of triples and number of graphs, if logged and compared over time, can give a practical view of the liveliness of the content of the endpoint.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> best,
>>>>>> Andrea Splendiani
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Il giorno 28/feb/2011, alle ore 18.55, Pierre-Yves Vandenbussche ha scritto:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> you have already encountered problems of SPARQL endpoint accessibility ?
>>>>>>> you feel frustrated they are never available when you need them?
>>>>>>> you develop an application using these services but wonder if it is reliable?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here is a tool [1] that allows you to know public SPARQL endpoints availability and monitor them in the last hours/days.
>>>>>>> Stay informed of a particular (or all) endpoint status changes through RSS feeds.
>>>>>>> All availability information generated by this tool is accessible through a SPARQL endpoint.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This tool fetches public SPARQL endpoints from CKAN  open data. From this list, it runs tests every hour for availability.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1] http://labs.mondeca.com/sparqlEndpointsStatus/index.html
>>>>>>> [2] http://ckan.net/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pierre-Yves Vandenbussche.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andrea Splendiani
>>>>>> Senior Bioinformatics Scientist
>>>>>> Centre for Mathematical and Computational Biology
>>>>>> +44(0)1582 763133 ext 2004
>>>>>> andrea.splendiani@bbsrc.ac.uk
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Hugh Glaser,
>>>>>           Intelligence, Agents, Multimedia
>>>>>           School of Electronics and Computer Science,
>>>>>           University of Southampton,
>>>>>           Southampton SO17 1BJ
>>>>> Work: +44 23 8059 3670, Fax: +44 23 8059 3045
>>>>> Mobile: +44 78 9422 3822, Home: +44 23 8061 5652
>>>>> http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~hg/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Andrea Splendiani
>>>> Senior Bioinformatics Scientist
>>>> Centre for Mathematical and Computational Biology
>>>> +44(0)1582 763133 ext 2004
>>>> andrea.splendiani@bbsrc.ac.uk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Hugh Glaser,
>>>             Intelligence, Agents, Multimedia
>>>             School of Electronics and Computer Science,
>>>             University of Southampton,
>>>             Southampton SO17 1BJ
>>> Work: +44 23 8059 3670, Fax: +44 23 8059 3045
>>> Mobile: +44 78 9422 3822, Home: +44 23 8061 5652
>>> http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~hg/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Received on Sunday, 6 March 2011 11:57:34 UTC

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