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Re: ANN: Sudoc bibliographic ans authority data

From: Antoine Isaac <aisaac@few.vu.nl>
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 12:22:11 +0200
Message-ID: <4E197D53.4040508@few.vu.nl>
To: public-lod@w3.org
Yann, Giovanni,


> Which side effects are probable ?


Giovanni has made the same comment on data.europeana.eu a couple of weeks ago. The data we serve there is different from the RDFa mark-up on our web portal.
We had some reasons to do this, including, well, that the RDFa data is mixing the info and non-info resources for making easier data consumption (not mandatorily by search engines, btw), and working with URIs that pre-date our linked data service.

The RDFa and the RDF obtained with LD-style conneg is also not about the same URIs, which should avoid any confusion.
But I can understand that if Sindice tries to fetch both data sources, it may assume the data to be the same. And this assumption could bring a number of undesirable side effects if Sindice merges all what it gets...

That being said, perhaps the solution lies in Sindice being less greedy ;-) and just work with the first data source it finds, for a given URI.
I do like the idea of having several (simple) channels for data publication over the web, which serve different goals.
Maybe we need to better articulate the practices and expectations, though...

Cheers,

Antoine


>   Hi Giovanni,
>
> Le 09/07/2011 23:10, Giovanni Tummarello a écrit :
>> Hi Nicolas,
>>
>> Its getting in Sindice indeed -
>
> Yes, I have noticed :)
>
>> quite politely e.g. 1 every 5 secs-
>> we'll monitor speed and completeness. iff you think its ok for us to
>> crawl faster please say so via robot.txt directive or just say so
> May I suggest that you crawl twice faster ?
>
>>
>> http://sindice.com/search?q=book&nq=&fq=domain%3Awww.sudoc.fr&sortbydate=1&interface=advanced
>>
>> at the same time i notice something funny in the markup e.g. if you go
>> with a browser you get redirected to something that has almost no data
>>
>> for example the sitemap contains
>>
>> http://www.sudoc.fr/000000043
>>
>> if you go there you get redirected to
>>
>> http://www.sudoc.abes.fr/DB=2.1/SRCH?IKT=12&TRM=000000043
>>
>> which if you put in the inspector
>>
>> http://inspector.sindice.com/inspect?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sudoc.abes.fr%2FDB%3D2.1%2FSRCH%3FIKT%3D12%26TRM%3D000000043#TRIPLES
>>
>> you get very little data
>>
>> however of course if i use the inspector on
>> http://www.sudoc.fr/000000043  i get data
>>
>> http://inspector.sindice.com/inspect?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sudoc.fr%2F000000043&content=&contentType=auto#TRIPLES
>>
>> which however is mostly schema.org data!
>>
>> but in sindice i have lots of RDF data with all sort of other ontologies
>>
>> http://sindice.com/search/page?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sudoc.fr%2F000385123
>>
>> is there any way you could try to normalize all into a single markup
>> type? i think it would be easier to debug and ultimately better for
>> all..
>
> I will try to explain our intention, our constraints and the mechanism we've implemented.
>
> - Intention -
>
> We want to meet several needs :
> . providing RDF/XML to semantic-oriented clients like Sindice
> . providing HTML + schema.org microdata to traditional search engines like Google
> . providing an HTML UI to users
>
>
> - Constraints -
>
> . For some reasons, we can't add microdata to our traditional Sudoc UI. Hence the necessity of special HTML+microdata pages for search engines. :(
> . HTML+microdata pages and RDF pages can't support the same vocabularies, schema.org /oblige/.
>
>
> - Mechanisms -
>
> Let's start from : http://www.sudoc.fr/132133520
>
> . If RDF/XML is called by the request, we provide RDF/XML content (as if you had requested http://www.sudoc.fr/132133520.rdf)
> It is what Sindice Crawler is doing and getting : the 55,764 documents that are found in your index are composed of triples extracted from this RDF/XML page. It is what we expected. Fine :)
>
> . If our Apache server considers a user agent to be a robot and if this agent does not ask for RDF/XML, we provide special HTML content (as if you had requested http://www.sudoc.fr/132133520.html)
> It seems to work as Google cache contains this kind of HTML + schema.org microdata pages : http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.sudoc.fr/000000043
>
> . In other cases, we redirect to our traditional and non semantic UI : http://www.sudoc.abes.fr/DB=2.1/SRCH?IKT=12&TRM=000000043
> . NB : we have planned to add this <link> in this HTML page : <link rel="alternate" type="application/rdf+xml" href="http://www.sudoc.fr/000000043.rdf"/> and <link rel="canonical" href="http://www.sudoc.fr/000000043"/> to alleviate the URL confusion.
>
>
> - - - - -
>
> . It is not simple, but it seems to work, ie Google, Sindice and users seem to get what they should.
> . Is there a better way to obtain the same results ?
> . Which side effects are probable ?
>
> Thanks for your help and your attention !
>
> Yann
>
>>
>> looking forward to support
>> Giovanni
>> Gio
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Kingsley Idehen<kidehen@openlinksw.com>  wrote:
>>> On 7/8/11 8:31 AM, Yann NICOLAS wrote:
>>>
>>> Le 08/07/2011 01:42, Kingsley Idehen a écrit  :
>>>
>>> On 7/7/11 10:17 PM, Yann NICOLAS wrote:
>>>
>>> Bonjour,
>>>
>>> Sudoc [1], the French academic union catalogue maintained by ABES [2], has
>>> just been released as linked open data.
>>>
>>> 10 million bibliographic records are now available as RDF/XML.
>>>
>>> Examples for the Sudoc record whose internal id is 132133520 :
>>> . Resource URI :http://www.sudoc.fr/132133520/id
>>> . Generic document :http://www.sudoc.fr/132133520  (content negotiation is
>>> supported)
>>>
>>>
>>> Great job!
>>>
>>> Is there an RDF dump anywhere?
>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry, we don't provide any dump, as the 10 000 000 files are generated on
>>> the fly from Oracle (stored as XML type+  some more tables).
>>> We provide a complete sitemap at
>>> http://www.sudoc.fr/noticesbiblio/sitemap.txt  , and we hope that Sindice
>>> will crawl the whole stuff.
>>> Would it help ?
>>>
>>> Any advice welcome,
>>>
>>> Yann
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> Yann NICOLAS
>>> Etudes&  Projets
>>> ABES
>>>
>>> Okay, no problem with sitemaps as dump alternatives re. getting data
>>> imported into Linked Data hubs such our LOD cloud cache and Sindice etc..
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Kingsley Idehen	
>>> President&  CEO
>>> OpenLink Software
>>> Web:http://www.openlinksw.com
>>> Weblog:http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
>>> Twitter/Identi.ca: kidehen
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
> --
> --
> Yann NICOLAS
> Etudes&  Projets
> ABES
>
Received on Sunday, 10 July 2011 10:21:14 UTC

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