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Re: RDFa editors

From: Martin Hepp <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 14:53:45 +0200
Cc: Semantic Web <semantic-web@w3.org>, public-lod <public-lod@w3.org>
Message-Id: <D9B38AB9-503A-4E58-9DE1-017BCB64D5BD@ebusiness-unibw.org>
To: Stéphane Corlosquet <scorlosquet@gmail.com>
Hi Stéphane,

>
> I think it's wrong to advocate "Use RDFa in Snippet Style rather  
> than combining visible markup and RDFa data markup." straight off  
> the bat - this might be a good advice in some cases, but saying that  
> without any disclaimer or context is misleading. People should first  
> look at integrating RDFa inline with their content and use the  
> snippet style when appropriate. The RDFa specs have lots of examples  
> which applies to inline HTML+RDFa, and if you look around you will  
> see that a lot of webpages have inline RDFa (foaf profiles,  
> licensing). RDFa snippets might work better for ecommerce, but  
> please don't generalize.

I am not religious about this, and the origial document is part of the  
GoodRelations cookbook.

Two remarks, however:

1. If you have dynamically populated Web page templates, e.g. in  
Django-style, then all of the arguments re consistency between visible  
content and meta-data in case of changes become irrelevant, because  
mentioning the same variable once or twice does not make any difference.

2. For non-trivial data-structures, properly weaving in RDFa into  
existing (!) XHTML markup is an intellectually very challenging job,  
in particular if the organisation of the existing markup for visible  
content does not naturally match the structure of the data.

Also note that many sites have pretty complicated, pre-existing  
(X)HTML templates; they do not start from scratch. Look at the  
ovestock.com page at

http://www.overstock.com/Electronics/Bell-and-Howell-DV550UW-12MP-Digital-Video-Camera-with-Underwater-Housing/4450313/product.html

3. As for the impact on the page size you have to consider that  
duplicate content will compress very well.

The only argument in favor of combining visible content and meta-data  
that I really accept is that this provides a slightly higher barrier  
for manipulative search engine optimization by using different content  
for the visible and the invisible payload. But it's on the other hand  
easy for a search engine to spot and punish sites that use e.g. a  
lower price in the meta-data than shown on the page.

Martin

On 26.10.2010, at 21:10, Stéphane Corlosquet wrote:

> Martin,
>
> 2010/10/26 Martin Hepp <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org>
> Hi all:
>
> A while ago, I compiled a few recommendations and links regarding  
> RDFa authoring at
>
>        http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/wiki/RDFaAuthoring
>
> I think it's wrong to advocate "Use RDFa in Snippet Style rather  
> than combining visible markup and RDFa data markup." straight off  
> the bat - this might be a good advice in some cases, but saying that  
> without any disclaimer or context is misleading. People should first  
> look at integrating RDFa inline with their content and use the  
> snippet style when appropriate. The RDFa specs have lots of examples  
> which applies to inline HTML+RDFa, and if you look around you will  
> see that a lot of webpages have inline RDFa (foaf profiles,  
> licensing). RDFa snippets might work better for ecommerce, but  
> please don't generalize.
>
> Steph.
>
>
>
> Best
>
> Martin
>
>
>
> On 23.10.2010, at 15:32, Ivan Herman wrote:
>
> Thanks Pablo, this is indeed (in my view) one of the way to get  
> these recorded. Anybody has a problem adding an item, I am happy to  
> help!
>
> And yes, great answers. Some of these things I did not know about  
> either!
>
> Thanks
>
> Ivan
>
> On Oct 21, 2010, at 18:40 , Pablo Mendes wrote:
>
> It would be nice to have them at:
> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/RDFa
>
> For those willing to go the extra mile and add their tool to the wiki:
> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/Tool_Contributors
>
> Cheers,
> Pablo
>
> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 5:16 PM, Juan Sequeda  
> <juanfederico@gmail.com> wrote:
> Great responses.
>
> Keep them coming!!
>
> Juan Sequeda
> +1-575-SEQ-UEDA
> www.juansequeda.com
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 9:24 AM, Rene Kapusta  
> <rene.kapusta@gmail.com> wrote:
> Aloha!
>
> We are currently working very hard on a new RDFa / Semantic  
> Annotation Plugin for http://aloha-editor.com (the prototype steph.  
> mentioned was just a quick hack to see how aloha editor is working;  
> to try a first integration in drupal and annotate the content with  
> simple http://commontag.org RDFa data with suggestions from Zemanta).
>
> Here are some details about the features/roadmap about the new plugin:
> http://aloha-editor.com/wiki/index.php/Semantic_Annotation
>
> We have now decided to use (and contribute back to) rdfQuery, a  
> really nice jQuery RDF extension, for the new Annotation plugin:
> http://code.google.com/p/rdfquery/
>
> Aloha Editor will also very likely be used und extended/improved at  
> the EU funded IKS Project as Semantic Editor:
> http://wiki.iks-project.eu
>
>
> If you have any suggestions, wishes, questions or would like to get  
> involved in the RDFa plugin for the online editor project -- "the  
> world's most advanced browser based editor" -- we would love to here  
> from you!
>
> Contact of the leader of the Aloha Editor project:
> Haymo Meran, h.meran@gentics.com
>
>
> Best regards & have a nice day,
> Rene
>
>
>
> 2010/10/21 Martin McEvoy <martin@weborganics.co.uk>
>
>
>
> On 21 October 2010 00:29, Eric Franzon <ericaxel@wilshireconferences.com 
> > wrote:
> I also recall a Dreamweaver extension by Martin McEvoy from a couple  
> years ago.  I don’t know the current status of this extension, but  
> it is called “RDFa Documents.”  That said, I found it relatively  
> easy to add RDFa to existing HTML documents using Dreamweaver even  
> without this extension..
>
>
>
> RDFa Documents is available from http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/exchange/index.cfm?event=extensionDetail&extid=1759526
> Its a little outdated so far it only supports RDFa 1.0.
>
> I am planning to release a new version for RDFa 1.1 sometime in the  
> next couple of months.
>
> Best Wishes
>
> Martin.
>
>
> --Eric
>
> eric@semanticweb.com
>
>
>
> From: semantic-web-request@w3.org [mailto:semantic-web- 
> request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Stéphane Corlosquet
> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 2:42 PM
> To: Juan Sequeda
> Cc: Semantic Web; public-lod; Jean-François Hovinne; Rene Kapusta
> Subject: Re: RDFa editors
>
>
> Not sure whether you mean wysiwyg style editor, but you can check  
> these two, both are prototypes when it comes to RDFa at this stage  
> afaik.
>
>
> WYMeditor - http://wymeditor.org/ - which integrates with Drupal,  
> Rails, Django, or WordPress. Prototype: http://files.wymeditor.org/wymeditor/trunk/src/examples/15-rdfa-editor.html 
>  (I'm cc'ing Jean-François who might be able to give some updates)
>
>
> There is also the very recent Aloha editor with a RDFa prototype at http://aloha-drupal.evo42.net/moc/node/9 
>  (cc'ing Rene who might be able to give some updates).
>
>
> Steph.
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Juan Sequeda  
> <juanfederico@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Everybody
>
>
> I want to add RDFa into my HTML. What is the easiest way to do this?  
> What are the RDFa editors out there? I know of loomp.org, but it  
> seems like it is still in private testing.
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Juan Sequeda
> +1-575-SEQ-UEDA
> www.juansequeda.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----
> Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
> mobile: +31-641044153
> PGP Key: http://www.ivan-herman.net/pgpkey.html
> FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Received on Wednesday, 27 October 2010 12:54:25 UTC

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