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Re: Contd: Nice Data Cleansing Tool Demo

From: Aldo Bucchi <aldo.bucchi@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 15:38:02 -0400
Message-ID: <7a4ebe1d1003291238q36cf4cefw8a7dd87344cbeb65@mail.gmail.com>
To: nathan@webr3.org
Cc: Georgi Kobilarov <georgi.kobilarov@gmx.de>, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>, public-lod@w3.org
Hi,

On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Nathan <nathan@webr3.org> wrote:
> Georgi Kobilarov wrote:
>> Kingsley,
>>
>>>>>> So by the time you can
>>>>>> use Pivot on SW/linked data, you will already have solved all the
>>>>>> interesting and challenging problems.
>>>>>>
>>>>> This part is what I call an innovation slot since we have hooked it
>>>>> into
>>>>>
>>>> our
>>>>
>>>>> DBMS hosted faceted engine and successfully used it over very large
>> data
>>>>> sets.
>>>> Kingsley, I'm wondering: How did you do that? I tried it myself, and
>>>> it doesn't work.
>>> Did I indicate that my demo instance was public? How did you come to
>>> overlook that?
>>
>> I wasn't referring to a demo of yours, but to the general task of using
>> Pivot as a frontend to a faceted browsing backend engine.
>>
>>
>>>> Pivot can't make use of server-side faceted browsing engines.
>>>>
>>> Why do you speculate? You are incorrect and Virtuoso *doing* what you
>>> claim is impossible will be emphatic proof, nice and simple.
>>>
>>> Pivot consumes data from HTTP accessible collections (which may be static
>> or
>>> dynamic [1]). A dynamic collection is comprised of CXML resources
>> (basically
>>> XML) .
>>
>> I don't speculate. Which parts of my "does not work" and "can't use" did
>> sound like a speculation?
>>
>>
>>>> You need to send *all* the data to the Pivot client, and it computes
>>>> the facets and performs any filtering operation client-side.
>>> You make a collection from a huge corpus of data (what I demonstrate) then
>>> you "Save As" (which I demonstrate as the generation point re. CXML
>>> resource) and then Pivot consumes. All the data is Virtuoso hosted.
>>>
>>> There are two things you are overlooking:
>>>
>>> 1. The dynamic collection is produced at the conclusion of Virtuoso based
>>> faceted navigation (the interactions basically describes the Facet
>>> membership to Virtuoso) 2. Pivot works with static and dynamic collections
>> .
>>> *I specifically state, this is about using both products together to solve
>> a
>>> major problem. #1 Faceted Browsing UX #2 Faceting over a huge data
>>> corpus.*
>>>
>>> Virtuoso is an HTTP server, it can serve a myriad of representations of
>> data to
>>> user agents (it has its own DBMS hosted XSLT Processor and XML Schema
>>> Validator with XQuery/XPath to boot, all very old stuff).
>>
>> Yes, you make a collection and "save as" that to CXML, exactly! That is not
>> "using Pivot as a frontend to Virtuoso". Sure, you can construct a small
>> dataset from a huge dataset using SPARQL, or your Virtuoso facet engine or
>> whatever. And then export that resulting dataset to Pivot collection XML and
>> load that CXML into Pivot. But that is very different to using Pivot as a
>> frontend to a huge data set.
>>
>>
>>> BTW -- how do you think Peter Haase got his variant working? I am sure he
>>> will shed identical light on the matter for you.
>>
>> Yes, Peter, please do. From what I saw in the Fluidops demo, it works
>> exactly as I wrote above: A sparql-query constructs a small dataset from the
>> sparql endpoint, converts that via a proxy to CXML and loads it into Pivot.
>>
>> I don't say Pivot doesn't make a nice demo, or a useful tool to explore a
>> small dataset via faceted filtering. But it's not a frontend that can be put
>> on top of a faceted browsing engine like
>> http://developer.nytimes.com/docs/article_search_api
>>
>
> The last thing I want is an argument about this; but surely virtually
> every service in the world; faceted browsing included, works by querying
> a large dataset to get a smaller set of results, transforming it in to a
> the needed format an then displaying? sounds like every system I've ever
> seen from the simple html view of an sql query right up to the mighty
> google itself.
>
> Maybe I'm being naive here; what am I missing?

Nathan,

You're not missing much. From what I see:
Georgi's point is that the level of integration is not ideal. It is
basically a "load" style integration, not a "connect" style
integration.
Kingsley's point is that they "can" be integrated, and he has a demo
to prove it.

Both are right ;)

I can relate to both but I lean towards Kingsley's because he is, as
usual, projecting. He knows that this integration is enough to make a
point, and that the rest will happen.
Show the value! The architecture will follow. ( this is what M$ does
all the time ). Plus they already have a lock-in on the runtime side
and seadragon tech, so I think they can afford to open the platform up
some more on the integration side of things.

Regards,
A

>
> Many Regards,
>
> Nathan
>
>



-- 
Aldo Bucchi
skype:aldo.bucchi
http://www.univrz.com/
http://aldobucchi.com/

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Received on Monday, 29 March 2010 19:38:35 UTC

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