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Re: [Freebase-experts] ISBNs, owl:sameAs, etc

From: Aldo Gangemi <aldo.gangemi@cnr.it>
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 17:04:23 +0100
Cc: Aldo Gangemi <aldo.gangemi@cnr.it>, Ross Singer <rossfsinger@gmail.com>, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>, Daniel O'Connor <daniel.oconnor@gmail.com>, Freebase Experts <freebase-experts@freebase.com>, public-lod@w3.org, Michael F F Uschold <uschold@gmail.com>
Message-Id: <6CB092A1-E828-4496-973D-B30D2ABAC159@cnr.it>
To: martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org
This issue had several threads on mailing lists. See e.g. my recap of  
a thread in SWIG from May 2008 [1].

Not a lot of evolution from that time, except it seems now pretty  
clear that we need a vocabulary to talk about different similarity  
relations (the most recent request for it came from Pat Hayes at  
Washington Vocamp).

However, a new vocabulary for similarity relations would also carry  
the need to "educate" people in using it, and would hamper  
interoperability with existing owl:sameAs datasets. However, better  
soon than never, I think :).

Ciao
Aldo

[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2008May/0126.html


On 7 Jan 2010, at 22:39, Martin Hepp (UniBW) wrote:

> hi ross,
> apologies for the delay!
>
> as long as both URIs represent a book title, i have no objections.
>
> my comment was a rather generic warning - URNs and "non-URN URIs"  
> can of course be linked by owl:sameAs.
>
> intelligence of a human or machine agent depends on the subtleness  
> and quality of that agent's category system. if everything is sameAs  
> to lots of other things, then the amount of intelligent conclusions  
> you can draw from the LOD cloud will be limited.
>
> best
> martin
>
>
>
> Ross Singer wrote:
>> Martin,
>>
>> Given that there's apparently considerable disagreement here (and
>> probably plenty of confusion), can you elaborate on what exactly you
>> object to in this request?
>>
>> The first objection I saw raised was by Tom Morris ("is a FreeBase
>> topic really a book?") and agree that urn:isbn:9780670063260 is not
>> the same thing as http://rdf.freebase.com/ns/en.on_the_road.
>>
>> However, I'm not sure I see that distinction between
>> urn:isbn:9780670063260 and
>> http://rdf.freebase.com/ns/soft.isbn.9780670063260.best as they're
>> both trying to identify an edition (or, loosely, a  
>> frbr:Manifestation)
>> of a work.
>>
>> My questions would be:
>> 1) If the latter relationship is not a good fit for owl:sameAs, why?
>> 2) if #1 is true, what is a better alternative?
>>
>> I understand the rationale of not wanting to water down the semantics
>> of owl:sameAs to the point that it's little more than rdfs:seeAlso
>> with louder voice.  At the same time, it's difficult to see if your
>> issue is with a type mismatch between a URN and a URI; how FreeBase
>> models their data; or general "mutually assured destruction"-ness of
>> owl:sameAs.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> -Ross.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 4:22 PM, Martin Hepp (UniBW)
>> <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org> wrote:
>>
>>> dear all:
>>> quite clearly, a book title is not the same as a book, and if the  
>>> linked
>>> data community continues to link apples and oranges via owl:sameAs  
>>> then
>>> either
>>>
>>> - the socially agreed meaning owl:sameAs is being degraded to  
>>> untyped href
>>> in HTML
>>> or
>>> -  vast amount of data in the linked data cloud turns useless
>>>
>>> but as a minimum precaution against spoiling the graph of data,  
>>> put your
>>> sameAs statements into separate graphs so that meaningful  
>>> applications can
>>> filter them out easily.
>>>
>>> best
>>>
>>> martin
>>>
>>> Kingsley Idehen wrote:
>>>
>>>> Daniel O'Connor wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 6:02 PM, Tom Morris <tfmorris@gmail.com
>>>>> <mailto:tfmorris@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>   But is the description of the book (ie Freebase topic) really  
>>>>> the same
>>>>>   thing as the book?
>>>>>
>>>>>   Assuming it was, wouldn't you not only have to make the sameAs
>>>>>   assertions and publish them someplace, but also get them  
>>>>> loaded into
>>>>>   sameas.org <http://sameas.org>?
>>>>>
>>>>>   Tom
>>>>>
>>>>>   On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 1:35 AM, Shawn Simister
>>>>>   <narphorium@gmail.com <mailto:narphorium@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>   > Are you just looking for a script that can make the 'same as'
>>>>>   assertions
>>>>>   > like this?
>>>>>   >
>>>>>   > http://rdfbooks.freebaseapps.com/ns/soft.isbn.9780670063260.best
>>>>>   >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ah hah!
>>>>>
>>>>> Now how to (nicely) get that indexed...
>>>>>
>>>> Make a linkset and publish it via:
>>>>
>>>> 1. A data dump
>>>> 2. SPARQL endpoint
>>>> 3. Your Linked Data Space .
>>>>
>>>> Then you have your index, and others can make their variants by  
>>>> meshing
>>>> their data with yours :-)
>>>>
>>>> Re. DBpedia, we can add the linkset to its own Named Graph as  
>>>> we've done
>>>> with other linksets.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>> martin hepp
>>> e-business & web science research group
>>> universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
>>>
>>> e-mail:  hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org
>>> phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217
>>> fax:     +49-(0)89-6004-4620
>>> www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
>>>       http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
>>> skype:   mfhepp twitter: mfhepp
>>>
>>> Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
>>> =================================================================
>>>
>>> Project page:
>>> http://purl.org/goodrelations/
>>>
>>> Resources for developers:
>>> http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/wiki/GoodRelations
>>>
>>> Webcasts:
>>> Overview - http://www.heppnetz.de/projects/goodrelations/webcast/
>>> How-to   - http://vimeo.com/7583816
>>>
>>> Recipe for Yahoo SearchMonkey:
>>> http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/wiki/GoodRelations_and_Yahoo_SearchMonkey
>>>
>>> Talk at the Semantic Technology Conference 2009: "Semantic Web-based
>>> E-Commerce: The GoodRelations Ontology"
>>> http://www.slideshare.net/mhepp/semantic-webbased-ecommerce-the-goodrelations-ontology-1535287
>>>
>>> Overview article on Semantic Universe:
>>> http://www.semanticuniverse.com/articles-semantic-web-based-e-commerce-webmasters-get-ready.html
>>>
>>> Tutorial materials:
>>> ISWC 2009 Tutorial: The Web of Data for E-Commerce in Brief: A  
>>> Hands-on
>>> Introduction to the GoodRelations Ontology, RDFa, and Yahoo!  
>>> SearchMonkey
>>> http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/wiki/Web_of_Data_for_E-Commerce_Tutorial_ISWC2009
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> -- 
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> martin hepp
> e-business & web science research group
> universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
>
> e-mail:  hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org
> phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217
> fax:     +49-(0)89-6004-4620
> www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
>        http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
> skype:   mfhepp twitter: mfhepp
>
> Check out GoodRelations for E-Commerce on the Web of Linked Data!
> =================================================================
>
> Project page:
> http://purl.org/goodrelations/
>
> Resources for developers:
> http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/wiki/GoodRelations
>
> Webcasts:
> Overview - http://www.heppnetz.de/projects/goodrelations/webcast/
> How-to   - http://vimeo.com/7583816
>
> Recipe for Yahoo SearchMonkey:
> http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/wiki/GoodRelations_and_Yahoo_SearchMonkey
>
> Talk at the Semantic Technology Conference 2009: "Semantic Web-based  
> E-Commerce: The GoodRelations Ontology"
> http://www.slideshare.net/mhepp/semantic-webbased-ecommerce-the-goodrelations-ontology-1535287
>
> Overview article on Semantic Universe:
> http://www.semanticuniverse.com/articles-semantic-web-based-e-commerce-webmasters-get-ready.html
>
> Tutorial materials:
> ISWC 2009 Tutorial: The Web of Data for E-Commerce in Brief: A Hands- 
> on Introduction to the GoodRelations Ontology, RDFa, and Yahoo!  
> SearchMonkey http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/wiki/Web_of_Data_for_E-Commerce_Tutorial_ISWC2009
>
>
>



_____________________________________

Aldo Gangemi

Senior Researcher
Semantic Technology Lab (STLab)
Institute for Cognitive Science and Technology,
National Research Council (ISTC-CNR)
Via Nomentana 56, 00161, Roma, Italy
Tel: +390644161535
Fax: +390644161513
aldo.gangemi@cnr.it
http://www.stlab.istc.cnr.it
http://www.istc.cnr.it/createhtml.php?nbr=71
skype aldogangemi
Received on Friday, 8 January 2010 16:05:00 UTC

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