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Re: Looking for metalex ontology

From: Tim Berners-Lee <timbl@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 11:22:41 -0500
Cc: Bernard Vatant <bernard.vatant@mondeca.com>, Linking Open Data <public-lod@w3.org>, Thomas Roessler <tlr@w3.org>, John Sheridan <johnlsheridan@yahoo.com>
Message-Id: <F145B80E-BB4A-4AB9-9C44-1187AD8AC500@w3.org>
To: Rinke Hoekstra <r.j.hoekstra@vu.nl>
Rinke,

Keep up the good work. 

If we can help at W3C, from advice or collegial discussion
(the semantic web Interest Group is on IRC at irc://irc.freenode.net/swig)
to hosting the ontology in a w3.org namespace, while leaving it under CEN
control, let me know.

Of course the way the semantic web woks is that a separate document can be
made which retrospectively links two or more existing vocabularies.
That linking document can be linked from an ontology of  a group
which has decided their terms have that relation to your terms.
So a stand-alone vocabulary cab be a very good member of the
Linked Data would, so long as the terms do dereference according to the specs.

KUTGW

Tim


On 2010-11 -30, at 04:26, Rinke Hoekstra wrote:

> Hi Bernard,
> 
> On 30 nov 2010, at 09:56, Bernard Vatant wrote:
>> BTW seems to me (now that you eventually led me to the OWL file) there is another way this ontology does not follow Linked Data best practices : It does not rely on any other vocabulary, although many classes and properties it defines could be easily find in what I call the Linked Open Vocabularies (FOAF, Dublin Core, BIBO, FRBR etc.)
> 
> Well, strictly speaking Metalex OWL was never intended as a Linked Data vocabulary, but rather an ontology in the more traditional sense that happens to use OWL. A fairly sensible approach in a pre-linked-open-government-data world (i.e. pre mid-2009). Of course, now, I fully agree that it should have been more interlinked with existing vocabularies. But I'm reluctant to have to go through (and pay for) yet another lengthy CEN standardisation track ;)
> 
>> Regarding this last point I'm in the process to gather in the single dataset how vocabularies used in the LOD cloud rely on each other. Stay tuned, publication in the days to come, bandwidth permitting.
> 
> Interesting stuff.
> 
> Cheers,
> Rinke
> 
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Bernard
>> 
>> 2010/11/30 Tim Berners-Lee <timbl@w3.org>
>> Bernard,
>> 
>> You have been tripped up by abuse of content negotiation.
>> 
>> Their document says they do conneg.
>> 
>> cwm http://www.metalex.eu/metalex/1.0
>> gives you data, as cwm only asks for RDF.
>> 
>> Following it by hand
>> $ curl -H Accept:application/rdf+xml http://www.metalex.eu/metalex/1.0
>> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//IETF//DTD HTML 2.0//EN">
>> <html><head>
>> <title>303 See Other</title>
>> </head><body>
>> <h1>See Other</h1>
>> <p>The answer to your request is located <a href="http://svn.metalex.eu/svn/MetaLexWS/branches/latest/metalex-cen.owl">here</a>.</p>
>> <hr>
>> <address>Apache/2.2.11 (Ubuntu) DAV/2 SVN/1.5.4 mod_jk/1.2.26 PHP/5.2.6-3ubuntu4.6 with Suhosin-Patch mod_python/3.3.1 Python/2.6.2 mod_ruby/1.2.6 Ruby/1.8.7(2008-08-11) mod_ssl/2.2.11 OpenSSL/0.9.8g mod_perl/2.0.4 Perl/v5.10.0 Server at www.metalex.eu Port 80</address>
>> </body></html>
>> $ 
>> 
>> *** Note here we are a 303 which means that what we are being redirected to is NOT the
>> ontology, but may be relevant.  The chain of custody is broken, te site does not assert that what follows
>> is the ontology.  But let us follow it anyway:
>> 
>> Following the 303
>> 
>> $ curl -H Accept:application/rdf+xml http://svn.metalex.eu/svn/MetaLexWS/branches/latest/metalex-cen.owl
>> <?xml version="1.0"?>
>> 
>> 
>> <!DOCTYPE rdf:RDF [
>>    <!ENTITY owl "http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#" >
>>    <!ENTITY owl11 "http://www.w3.org/2006/12/owl11#" >
>> [...]
>>     xmlns:metalex="http://www.metalex.eu/metalex/2008-05-02#"
>>     xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#"
>>     xmlns:owl="http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#">
>>    <owl:Ontology rdf:about="">
>> [...]
>> 
>> *** Note that here you do get some RDF.
>> 
>> Tabulator can read that.  Each term is as you explore marked by a red dot to
>> indicate that it could not be looked up on the web.  Because:
>> ** You do not get information about the namespace
>>  xmlns:metalex="http://www.metalex.eu/metalex/2008-05-02#"
>> instead of the one you originally asked about!
>> 
>> So after all that you can see what they are getting  at and how they are thinking.
>> But their linked data is seriously and needlessly broken.
>> 
>> To fix it, they should just serve the ontology with 200 from http://www.metalex.eu/metalex/1.0
>> and fix the namespace in it to be that. No conneg.
>> 
>> 
>> *** Without Firefox, however, even with tabulator, so accepting RDF or HTML, is redirected to:
>> http://www.cen.eu/cen/Sectors/Sectors/ISSS/CEN%20Workshop%20Agreements/Pages/MLX%20CWAs.aspx
>> which is a sort of a home page about the document, with copyright stuff,
>> but it is not the ontology.
>> 
>> So they are using the same URI for two documents with very different 
>> information, which is architecturally bad and practically messed you up.
>> 
>> Note that John Shedidan (Ccd) and colleagues have put the UK laws on line
>> with lots of RDF -- you could sync up wit them if you haven't
>> 
>> Moral: point tabulator at it and if it doesn't work, fix it.
>> Tim
>> 
>> PS: Their copyright
>> 
>> "CWAs are CEN copyright. Those made available for downloading are provided on the condition that they may not be modified, re-distributed, sold or repackaged in any form without the prior consent of CEN, and are only for the use of the person downloading them.  For additional copyright information, please refer to the statements on the cover pages of the CWAs concerned."   sounds as though if it applies to the ontology, which isn't obvious
>> 
>> On 2010-11 -29, at 14:41, Bernard Vatant wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi all
>>> 
>>> According to http://www.ckan.net/tag/format-metalex there are two datasets in the LOD cloud relying on metalex ontology.
>>> 
>>> But they provide different URIs for this ontology ...
>>> 
>>> http://www.best-project.nl/rechtspraak.ttl  says :
>>> void:vocabulary <http://www.metalex.eu/schema>
>>> 
>>> http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1985/67/section/6/data.rdf says :
>>> xmlns:metalex="http://www.metalex.eu/metalex/2008-05-02#"
>>> 
>>> ... and both are dead links ...
>>> 
>>> OTOH http://www.metalex.eu/documentation/ says:
>>> "The namespace of the CEN MetaLex XML Schema and OWL specification is http://www.metalex.eu/metalex/1.0"
>>> 
>>> ... which redirects to ... well ...
>>> 
>>> Too bad because this metalex ontology looks really interesting :)
>>> 
>>> Pointer, someone?
>>> 
>>> Bernard
>>> -- 
>>> Bernard Vatant
>>> Senior Consultant
>>> Vocabulary & Data Engineering
>>> Tel:       +33 (0) 971 488 459
>>> Mail:     bernard.vatant@mondeca.com
>>> ----------------------------------------------------
>>> Mondeca
>>> 3, cité Nollez 75018 Paris France
>>> Web:    http://www.mondeca.com
>>> Blog:    http://mondeca.wordpress.com
>>> ----------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Bernard Vatant
>> Senior Consultant
>> Vocabulary & Data Engineering
>> Tel:       +33 (0) 971 488 459
>> Mail:     bernard.vatant@mondeca.com
>> ----------------------------------------------------
>> Mondeca
>> 3, cité Nollez 75018 Paris France
>> Web:    http://www.mondeca.com
>> Blog:    http://mondeca.wordpress.com
>> ----------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> ---
> Dr Rinke Hoekstra
> 
> AI Department         |   Leibniz Center for Law    
> Faculty of Sciences   |   Faculty of Law            
> Vrije Universiteit    |   Universiteit van Amsterdam
> De Boelelaan 1081a    |   Kloveniersburgwal 48      
> 1081 HV Amsterdam     |   1012 CX  Amsterdam        
> +31-(0)20-5987752     |   +31-(0)20-5253497         
> r.j.hoekstra@vu.nl    |   hoekstra@uva.nl           
> 
> Homepage: http://www.few.vu.nl/~hoekstra
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
Received on Thursday, 9 December 2010 16:22:48 UTC

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