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Re: Contd: How to query for Country Specific Data

From: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 08:02:52 -0400
Message-ID: <4A1A88EC.3090000@openlinksw.com>
To: Hugh Glaser <hg@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
CC: "richard.hancock@3kbo.com" <richard.hancock@3kbo.com>, "public-lod@w3.org" <public-lod@w3.org>
Hugh Glaser wrote:
> Thanks Kingsley.
> I'm not sure why you have raised all this again.
> I simply suggested to Richard another way of doing what he wanted.
>   
I don't have an issue with you point Richard to alternatives.
I do have issues with our offering being misrepresented (albeit 
unintentionally).
> You then asked me whether what you had proposed failed to resolve his
> problem.
> I can't say whether it does, but perhaps Richard can better answer that.
>   
Yes.
> But it would have been rude of me not to attempt to answer your direct
> question to me.
> My view is that probably none of this now addresses Richard's fundamental
> problem, I think, (which I was trying to do in my message and which Toby is
> also trying to address). He needs reliable properties that relate countries
> to their geography. It is a problem of ontology and published data, not how
> to access it.
>   
I am very aware of this, I am not an ABox only Linked Data type :-)
> Išll trim things a bit to try to get at some essence.
>
> On 25/05/2009 03:43, "Kingsley Idehen" <kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote:
>   
>> I am not assuming once source. Of course not. I am assuming a possible
>> beachhead :-)
>>     
> And a very nice beachhead.
> But your solution only talked about the source at http://lod.openlinksw.com
> It is also interesting to consider how it might interact with other sources.
>   
If you look closely, we don't take the original URIs out of scope, you 
always have a route to wherever on the broader Linked Data Web.

Nice metaphor: Spaghetti Junction out of B'ham :-)
>> The whole point of Linked Data should be to demonstrate how it embraces
>> and extends the Google full text search realm which is autistic to
>> entities, entity types, and entity properties re. disambiguation of
>> queries (or as they call them: searches).
>>     
> Ah. I think this is perhaps getting to the nub.
> I don't see Linked Data as relating to search - more to lookup, as in a
> database record lookup by key.
>   
Linked Data is inextricably linked to search re. the Web, because URIs 
are inextricably linked to entity identifiers and negotiated 
representations (documents) that carry their descriptions.
> The semantic web is more like one big database then a big file system.
>   
I speak in terms of data spaces, and I see the Web as a federation of 
Linked Data Spaces.

I don't see a Web and a Semantic Web. That thinking and reality died a 
long time ago (imho).

There is just a World Wide Web that have evolved to the point where 
linkage now occurs at the data -- rather than document-- level.
> So you project into the Linked Data world by finding the URI you want, and
> from then on in it is URIs all the way down, until/unless you want to show a
> human something, when you project back into their language.
>   
>>> That is exactly what Richard was trying to do; having found a URI such as
>>> http://dbpedia.org/resource/New_Zealand that he is satisfied captures the
>>> concept with which he is concerned, he now wants to explore what is known
>>> about it in the Linked Data world, without going back to the text world.
>>>  
>>>       
>> Again, I don't think I am sending him back to the full text pattern world.
>>
>> I am saying:
>>
>> 1. Enter a patter: New Zealand (as you would re. Google, Yahoo! etc..)
>> 2. When presented with hits (which are really Entities with URIs  plus
>> excerpts from associated literal object values) filter further by Entity
>> Type or Entity Property
>>     
> OK, that's how to start.
> But he doesn't need to do that - he said he already had the URI he wanted:
> http://dbpedia.org/resource/New_Zealand
>   
Even easier then for him, he just goes to the tab labeled: URI Lookup .

And then he can see link constellation associated with this entity.

>>     
>>> And I donšt think he wanted to do any clicking ­ he wanted to just script it
>>> all up in a reliable Linked Data sort of way.
>>>  
>>>       
>> Lets assume he didn't want to click anything, what do you think the
>> purpose of the "URI Lookup by Label" and "URI Lookup" tabs are for then?
>>     
> For me to put in a URI such as http://dbpedia.org/resource/New_Zealand and
> get the Linked Data back.
>   
>> They are for entering patterns that are associated with Entity Labels or
>> actual URIs.
>>     
> Have you tried typing in the URIs that Richard specified?
> However, looking at it, I think it may just be a bugette, which confused me.
>   
>> The instance at: <http://lod.openlinksw.com> is but one data space on
>> the vast Web of Linked Data. It's a linked data junction box with lots
>> of de-referencable URIs that can take you to many places on the Web or
>> conduct data via many pathways on the Web.
>>     
> Actually, it is a Linked Data site that has uploaded a lot of data from
> other places, and also dynamically gets more. I assume by instance you mean
> it is an instance of the class of Linked Data sites.
>   
>> I don't understand why you find my responses fundamentally incongruent
>> with the very essence of Linked Data. We keep on going round the same
>> loop in different ways.
>>     
> An interesting question.
> I am certainly uncomfortable with responses that never seem to mention the
> idea that Linked Data is a Web of Data, by suggesting the use of data that
> might be accessed on domains other than http://lod.openlinksw.com .
>   
http://lod.openlinksw.com for all intents an purposes in a Linked Data 
Web lookup service. All URIs are intact meaning, you can dereference the 
URIs against their sources. Please take a closer look at the @href 
values in our Web pages.  We are not centralist we are as open as you 
can get and we tackle real problems based on a wealth of deep experience 
from both the DBMS (different types) and Middleware realms.

Linked Data is a more open vehicle for our inherent passion and 
expertise. What we showcase is about real issues and practical 
solutions. The Web isn't about a single company or a single service 
(I've made this crystal clear numerous times in my comments), it should 
be a about collections of solutions that adhere to core principles.

My general discomfort is that you are not really grasping the essence of 
our intentions etc..


Kingsley
> But this would be for another thread, and I don't have the time to do that.
>
> Best
> Hugh
>
>
>   


-- 


Regards,

Kingsley Idehen	      Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
President & CEO 
OpenLink Software     Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Received on Monday, 25 May 2009 12:04:13 UTC

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