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Re: Contd: How to query for Country Specific Data

From: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 08:02:52 -0400
Message-ID: <4A1A88EC.3090000@openlinksw.com>
To: Hugh Glaser <hg@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
CC: "richard.hancock@3kbo.com" <richard.hancock@3kbo.com>, "public-lod@w3.org" <public-lod@w3.org>
Hugh Glaser wrote:
> Thanks Kingsley.
> I'm not sure why you have raised all this again.
> I simply suggested to Richard another way of doing what he wanted.
I don't have an issue with you point Richard to alternatives.
I do have issues with our offering being misrepresented (albeit 
> You then asked me whether what you had proposed failed to resolve his
> problem.
> I can't say whether it does, but perhaps Richard can better answer that.
> But it would have been rude of me not to attempt to answer your direct
> question to me.
> My view is that probably none of this now addresses Richard's fundamental
> problem, I think, (which I was trying to do in my message and which Toby is
> also trying to address). He needs reliable properties that relate countries
> to their geography. It is a problem of ontology and published data, not how
> to access it.
I am very aware of this, I am not an ABox only Linked Data type :-)
> Išll trim things a bit to try to get at some essence.
> On 25/05/2009 03:43, "Kingsley Idehen" <kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote:
>> I am not assuming once source. Of course not. I am assuming a possible
>> beachhead :-)
> And a very nice beachhead.
> But your solution only talked about the source at http://lod.openlinksw.com
> It is also interesting to consider how it might interact with other sources.
If you look closely, we don't take the original URIs out of scope, you 
always have a route to wherever on the broader Linked Data Web.

Nice metaphor: Spaghetti Junction out of B'ham :-)
>> The whole point of Linked Data should be to demonstrate how it embraces
>> and extends the Google full text search realm which is autistic to
>> entities, entity types, and entity properties re. disambiguation of
>> queries (or as they call them: searches).
> Ah. I think this is perhaps getting to the nub.
> I don't see Linked Data as relating to search - more to lookup, as in a
> database record lookup by key.
Linked Data is inextricably linked to search re. the Web, because URIs 
are inextricably linked to entity identifiers and negotiated 
representations (documents) that carry their descriptions.
> The semantic web is more like one big database then a big file system.
I speak in terms of data spaces, and I see the Web as a federation of 
Linked Data Spaces.

I don't see a Web and a Semantic Web. That thinking and reality died a 
long time ago (imho).

There is just a World Wide Web that have evolved to the point where 
linkage now occurs at the data -- rather than document-- level.
> So you project into the Linked Data world by finding the URI you want, and
> from then on in it is URIs all the way down, until/unless you want to show a
> human something, when you project back into their language.
>>> That is exactly what Richard was trying to do; having found a URI such as
>>> http://dbpedia.org/resource/New_Zealand that he is satisfied captures the
>>> concept with which he is concerned, he now wants to explore what is known
>>> about it in the Linked Data world, without going back to the text world.
>> Again, I don't think I am sending him back to the full text pattern world.
>> I am saying:
>> 1. Enter a patter: New Zealand (as you would re. Google, Yahoo! etc..)
>> 2. When presented with hits (which are really Entities with URIs  plus
>> excerpts from associated literal object values) filter further by Entity
>> Type or Entity Property
> OK, that's how to start.
> But he doesn't need to do that - he said he already had the URI he wanted:
> http://dbpedia.org/resource/New_Zealand
Even easier then for him, he just goes to the tab labeled: URI Lookup .

And then he can see link constellation associated with this entity.

>>> And I donšt think he wanted to do any clicking ­ he wanted to just script it
>>> all up in a reliable Linked Data sort of way.
>> Lets assume he didn't want to click anything, what do you think the
>> purpose of the "URI Lookup by Label" and "URI Lookup" tabs are for then?
> For me to put in a URI such as http://dbpedia.org/resource/New_Zealand and
> get the Linked Data back.
>> They are for entering patterns that are associated with Entity Labels or
>> actual URIs.
> Have you tried typing in the URIs that Richard specified?
> However, looking at it, I think it may just be a bugette, which confused me.
>> The instance at: <http://lod.openlinksw.com> is but one data space on
>> the vast Web of Linked Data. It's a linked data junction box with lots
>> of de-referencable URIs that can take you to many places on the Web or
>> conduct data via many pathways on the Web.
> Actually, it is a Linked Data site that has uploaded a lot of data from
> other places, and also dynamically gets more. I assume by instance you mean
> it is an instance of the class of Linked Data sites.
>> I don't understand why you find my responses fundamentally incongruent
>> with the very essence of Linked Data. We keep on going round the same
>> loop in different ways.
> An interesting question.
> I am certainly uncomfortable with responses that never seem to mention the
> idea that Linked Data is a Web of Data, by suggesting the use of data that
> might be accessed on domains other than http://lod.openlinksw.com .
http://lod.openlinksw.com for all intents an purposes in a Linked Data 
Web lookup service. All URIs are intact meaning, you can dereference the 
URIs against their sources. Please take a closer look at the @href 
values in our Web pages.  We are not centralist we are as open as you 
can get and we tackle real problems based on a wealth of deep experience 
from both the DBMS (different types) and Middleware realms.

Linked Data is a more open vehicle for our inherent passion and 
expertise. What we showcase is about real issues and practical 
solutions. The Web isn't about a single company or a single service 
(I've made this crystal clear numerous times in my comments), it should 
be a about collections of solutions that adhere to core principles.

My general discomfort is that you are not really grasping the essence of 
our intentions etc..

> But this would be for another thread, and I don't have the time to do that.
> Best
> Hugh



Kingsley Idehen	      Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
President & CEO 
OpenLink Software     Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Received on Monday, 25 May 2009 12:04:13 UTC

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