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Re: http://ld2sd.deri.org/lod-ng-tutorial/

From: Giovanni Tummarello <g.tummarello@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:56:33 +0100
Message-ID: <210271540906230556kacc0219sef368bb8649cc72f@mail.gmail.com>
To: martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org
Cc: Michael Hausenblas <michael.hausenblas@deri.org>, mark.birbeck@webbackplane.com, david@dbooth.org, Linked Data community <public-lod@w3.org>
Martin,

partially you could solve the problem yourself by putting the
owl:import triples in your ontology fragments e.g. the fragment, when
served, says "owl import" so that you're sure the ontology is used as
a whole..

would this do it? :-) fixing the problem in a "single" location might
be so much easier than expecting all to fix it at their side
(remember.. they see no advantage in it, just extra triples)

Giovanni

On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Martin Hepp
(UniBW)<martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org> wrote:
> It was not my intend to insult anybody. But I still don't get why some of
> you want to recommend a pattern that breaks with a current W3C
> recommendation just on the basis that there are many documents out there
> that break with it. The Swoogle post from 2007 simply says that there are
> many documents out there that are not using it properly. But there are also
> many RDF resources out there that break with LOD principles and LOD
> recommendations and nobody would dare to question the principles solely on
> the basis of bad implementations.
>
> And Michael, please be frank - there is a tendency in the LOD community
> which goes along the lines of "OWL and DL-minded SW research has proven
> obsolete anyway, so we LOD guys and girls just pick and use the bits and
> pieces we like and don't care about the rest".
>
> As Kingsley said - deceptively simple solutions are cheap in the beginning
> but can be pretty costly in the long run.
>
> What made the Web so powerful is that its Architecture is extremely
> well-thought underneath the first cover of simplicity. Exactly the opposite
> of "I will use this pragmatic pattern until it breaks" but instead
> "architectural beauty for eternity".
>
> Just look at the http specs. The fact that you can do a nice 303 is because
> someone in the distant past very cleverly designed a protocol goes well
> beyond the pragmatic "I have a URL (sic!) and want to fetch the Web page in
> HTML (sic!)".
>
> So when being proud of being the "pragmatic guys" keep in mind that nothing
> is as powerful in practice as something that is theoretically consistent.
>
> Best
> Martin
>
>
> Michael Hausenblas wrote:
>
> Martin,
>
>
>
> (moving this to LOD public as suggested)
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> General note: I am quite unhappy with a general movement in parts of the
> LOD community to clash with the OWL world even when that is absolutely
> unnecessary. It is just a bad engineering practice to break with
> existing standards unless you can justify the side-effects. And this
> stubborn "i don't care what the OWL specs says" pattern is silly, in
> particular if the real motivation of many proponents of this approach is
> that they don't want or cannot read the OWL specs.
>
>
> I don't think it is particular helpful to insult people, to utter
> imputations and judge a book by its cover. If we can agree to stop using
> such terminology I'm more than happy to continue the discussion.
>
>
>
> On the other hand - what is your pain with  using RDFa in a way so that
> the extracted RDF model is equivalent to the model from an RDF/XML or N3
> serialization? Why this absolutely arbitrary "we LOD guys don't like
> owl:import ( we don't like OWL anyway, you know?), so we simply omit it"
> behavior?
>
> It is just silly to break with established standards just for saving 1 -
> 2 triples.
>
>
> Ok, so, again, for the chaps who didn't get the entire story. Martin
> champions the use of owl:import (and wants to see it written down as a good
> practice?) in linked data.
>
> My take on this is as follows: when one takes the linked data principles and
> applies them in practice (esp. referring to #2, here) there are naturally a
> dozens implementation choices as the principles simply leave room for
> interpretation.
>
> The people here know me from the RDFa TF, from the AWWSW TF and last but not
> least from the LOD community as a simple-minded, pragmatic guy, I hope ;)
>
> So, my hunch would be: the market will make the final decision, not a Martin
> Hepp and also not a Michael Hausenblas. If people think this is a clever
> idea, they will use it when publishing linked data. AFAIK, to date the usage
> of owl:import in linked data is close to non-existing (even in pre-LOD times
> it seemed to be not very common [1]).
>
> Concluding, I'd propose - respecting the nature of good *practice* - once we
> notice a serious usage of owl:import in LOD data, we may want to rehash this
> topic.
>
> Cheers,
>       Michael
>
> [1] http://ebiquity.umbc.edu/blogger/2007/06/15/how-owlimport-is-used/
>
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> martin hepp
> e-business & web science research group
> universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen
>
> e-mail:  mhepp@computer.org
> phone:   +49-(0)89-6004-4217
> fax:     +49-(0)89-6004-4620
> www:     http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group)
>          http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal)
> skype:   mfhepp
> twitter: mfhepp
>
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> ========================================================================
>
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>
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>
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>
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>
>
>
>
Received on Tuesday, 23 June 2009 12:57:25 UTC

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