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Re: Have you seen this story?

From: Aldo Bucchi <aldo.bucchi@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 18:15:58 -0400
Message-ID: <7a4ebe1d0904101515h5a201495g393c3eb6245c919c@mail.gmail.com>
To: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
Cc: public-lod@w3.org
Kingsley,

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote:
> Aldo Bucchi wrote:
>>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> I didn't find that post even challenging ( and as some of you might
>> know I really like to argue ), because it makes a fundamental mistake
>> and all drips from there:
>>
>> Do the manufacturers of, say, a new form of carbon nanotubes, use it
>> as material for their own tools?
>>
>> Well, the answer is: not necessarily (and most probably, not at all).
>> At least not in its raw form. It needs processing, it might be more
>> expensive and the tools probably won't make the job better than the
>> old ones.
>> But the material is still better than alluminium, but tools are
>> complex and require other skills that these developers need not
>> necessarily have. It needs to take its place on the low level of a
>> complex industry and value will eventually flourish.
>>
>> This is not different than Linked Data in this context.
>> So, why can someone come to such blunt observation by relating creator
>> dogfooding to the ultimate value of the technology?
>>
>> One could argue that this is closely related to the semantic "curse".
>>
>> The answer appears when you try to answer this simple question:
>> * How is this material better?
>>
>> Which inevitably leads you, at least, to:
>> * What do these materials have in common?
>> * What specific qualities of value, present in both, are being improved?
>>
>> We only recently did that for Linked Data!
>> So, the fundamental and shared flaw here has been to attribute a
>> "magical", one-of-a-kind nature to something instead of characterizing
>> it in terms of the previously existing alternatives, which results in
>> confusion and... well, what do you expect if we start from there ;)
>>
>> He might be right that there were mistakes, but the real flaws were
>> related to non-specific communication from the SW community ( there
>> was not clear definition of the "what is this", "what does it compare
>> to" and "why its better" ) and then a lack of deep analysis on part of
>> the writer, who got stuck in his myopia and is calling carbon nanotube
>> developers "snake oil" salesmen because they don't use the material in
>> their labs.
>>
>> However, I do believe in dogfooding and I do it mostly for personal
>> purposes. But one thing is to support it, another to demand it.
>>
>> OTOH. I like to think that these weren't mistakes. I mean, that the
>> time this project took to lift off due to poor communicational
>> strategies was not in vain.
>> It would have been awfully hard and controversial to explain Linked
>> Data in terms of distributed database technology back in the days.
>> While it would have been certainly understood by a much larger
>> audience, in terms of its development it probably would have entered a
>> state of enthropy and evolved into several JSR kind of process, not to
>> mention strategic oppositions from industry leaders and the inevitable
>>  competition ( which, when it comes to standardization processes, is
>> not usually welcome ).
>>
>
> Aldo,
>
> No argument re. the above, as you know anyhow :-)
>>
>> In more concrete terms. We didn't give M$ a chance to create "RDF-MS
>> Edition" by staying off the radar.
>> ( I hope so )
>>
>
> Hmm. ADO.NET's Entity Frameworks is RDF-MS salvo #1
>
> Project "M" is salvo #2.
>
> They get it right at #3 and by then it will be them playing well with the
> Linked Data Web.
>
> IE is no doable on the Linked Data Web :-)

Ah good examples.

Now, regarding IE. Of course it is not the same game so their trick
would have been different... But how about Windows Live + Semantic
Office + a centralized registry to provide IDs for things.

I agree that they will now have to play along with Linked Data web.
But they didn't see it coming, if they had... ( well we'll never know
I'm just fantasizing here ).

>
>> Semantic was a great codename, but for the wrong reasons!
>>
>>
>
> Great codename for a great Thing.
> Stinker of a name for discerning meaning of the Thing :-)

Semantically correct, but comunicationally impaired ;)

>
> Anyway, Semantic Web issues are now "water under the bridge" in my world
> view, the big MO is behind Linked Data and we should simply carry this into
> related and vital realms such as OWL (the TBox side is very important), but
> do so with pragmatism and coherence. We know this works, based on the Linked
> Data journey experience.
>
> This community has succeeded were alternative approaches have failed. We
> must never forget that when moving forward.

Yes I agree, this is old stuff. I was just looking back for a second.
There are so many things I never got to say that I sometimes try to
slip them in here.

I have to admit that regarding the *Macro* TBox aspect I am only now
starting to pay attention. My imagination needs some more training to
understand where this is going to take us in the mid term.
( I have groked the ABox aspect for 5 years now, but the other one
quickly leads me to AI and out of my comfort zone ).

This community is amazing ;)
I would put all my chips on the table for you anytime now.
( wait... I already am! )

A.

>
> Kingsley
>>
>> Regards,
>> A
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 10:00 AM, Tom Heath <tom.heath@talis.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi Daniel,
>>>
>>> 2009/4/9 Daniel Schwabe <dschwabe@inf.puc-rio.br>:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>> this may be old stuff, but I was surprised to read
>>>>
>>>> http://www.intelligententerprise.com/blog/archives/2009/02/semantic_web_sn.html...
>>>>
>>>
>>> Me too!
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> He does have some points...
>>>>
>>>
>>> In 99% of cases with respect to me he doesn't ;)
>>>
>>> As I say in my response on his blog (copied into that post of mine
>>> that Juan refers to) I agree that we, the Semantic Web community, have
>>> not always done as much as we could in the dog food department, but
>>> that has been changing rapidly since 2006 and we should keep
>>> up/increase the pace.
>>>
>>> I won't comment on that blog post any further here; it's already
>>> sapped too many hours of my life :)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Tom.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dr Tom Heath
>>> Researcher
>>> Platform Division
>>> Talis Information Ltd
>>> T: 0870 400 5000
>>> W: http://www.talis.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Kingsley Idehen       Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
> President & CEO OpenLink Software     Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
>
>
>
>
>
>



-- 
Aldo Bucchi
U N I V R Z
Office: +56 2 795 4532
Mobile:+56 9 7623 8653
skype:aldo.bucchi
http://www.univrz.com/
http://aldobucchi.com/

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Received on Friday, 10 April 2009 22:16:39 UTC

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