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Re: forms, direction, query, etc …

From: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 09:24:22 -0500
Message-ID: <50ACE416.4060808@openlinksw.com>
To: public-ldp-wg@w3.org
On 11/20/12 11:25 PM, Arnaud Le Hors wrote:
> Please, Kingsley. quit repeating yourself all the time. I guarantee 
> you that this is not a productive way of communicating with others. 
> You're just turning people off. Seriously.
>
> For what it's worth the charter goes beyond referencing TimBL's meme 
> as you like to call it, again and again, ad nauseam. It also states 
> that "The starting point for this group is the W3C Submission _Linked 
> Data Basic Profile 1.0_ <http://www.w3.org/Submission/2012/02/>." This 
> submission doesn't rely on SPARQL and I think it would be a mistake to 
> make LDP any different, from that point of view.

Can't you take a second to digest the fundamental point. All you have to 
do is remove "SPARQL" from whatever is being adopted as Linked Data re. 
this effort. Can't you see that? Then you don't even get to the point 
where SPARQL becomes a distraction.

>
> IBM has successfully integrated with technologies like Sharepoint with 
> minimal effort thanks to the simplicity of what's described in the 
> submission. The more we require of LDP implementations the lesser the 
> adoption will be.
>
> Note that the charter does refer to SPARQL. It reads:
>
> How to integrate with SPARQL, including how to find a SPARQL endpoint 
> serving data for a particular resource? (To be coordinated with SPARQL 
> community/WG.)
>
> So, how LDP relates to SPARQL is clearly in scope, but that hardly 
> means LDP should depend on it.
>
> Now if, as you disclosed in another post, you're just playing devil's 
> advocate to make a point about references to Tim's definition of 
> Linked Data which I know you disagree with, I will have to ask that 
> you take that to another forum.

Again, please digest the thread that started with a SPARQL query based 
form and the responses that followed.

Please stop reacting. Just digest the flow and connect the dots.


Kingsley
>
> Thank you.
> --
> Arnaud  Le Hors - Software Standards Architect - IBM Software Group
>
>
> Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote on 11/20/2012 06:58:54 PM:
>
> > From: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
> > To: public-ldp-wg@w3.org,
> > Date: 11/20/2012 06:59 PM
> > Subject: Re: forms, direction, query, etc …
> >
> > On 11/20/12 8:24 PM, Arnaud Le Hors wrote:
> > You guys should feel free to develop any proposals you'd like but,
> > while I'm happy for the WG to weigh in on this in view of an actual
> > proposal, I have to say that this seems quite far from what I think
> > this WG is chartered to do.
> >
> > Putting aside the reliance on SPARQL for which several people have
> > already raised concerns I don't think developing an elaborate query
> > mechanism is on our plate, at least not in this version of the spec.
> > The LDP draft spec makes a very specific claim [1] about its
> > interpretation of what Linked Data means. The choosen meaning
> > explicitly introduces SPARQL. Note, SPARQL and RDF are given equal
> > weighting in TimBL's meme [2].
> >
> > Clarity matters when you produce specs.
> >
>
> >
> > Again, I don't mean to stop you. Please, feel free to make a
> > proposal. I just want to share with you my concern that this may be
> > out of scope so that if you see me pressing this point later on you
> > aren't surprised. Consider that a fair warning. :-)
> >
> > Your concern should be triangulated back to the very basis for the
> > LDP effort. SPARQL is part of the deal at this juncture, based on
> > the the route that's been chosen thus far.
> >
> >
> > Links:
> >
> > 1. http://www.w3.org/Submission/2012/SUBM-ldbp-20120326/#intro--
> > note you have SPARQL listed
> > 2. http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkedData.html-- note point #3
> >
> > Kingsley
> > --
> > Arnaud  Le Hors - Software Standards Architect - IBM Software Group
> >
> >
> > Roger Menday <Roger.Menday@uk.fujitsu.com> wrote on 11/20/2012 
> 02:04:26 AM:
> >
> > > From: Roger Menday <Roger.Menday@uk.fujitsu.com>
> > > To: Olivier Berger <olivier.berger@it-sudparis.eu>,
> > > Cc: Linked Data Platform Working Group <public-ldp-wg@w3.org>
> > > Date: 11/20/2012 02:05 AM
> > > Subject: Re: forms, direction, query, etc …
> > >
> > >
> > > >> Henry opened up some discussion at the end of our phone
> > > conference today, regarding his proposal about forms and query.
> > > >>
> > > >> I've got to say that I thought Henry's proposal [1] was really
> > > >> elegant.
> > > >
> > > > +1
> > > >
> > > >> I also think that it is a solution for a problem that is very
> > > relevant to LDP.
> > > >>
> > > >> If it has a flaw, it that a client needs to be SPARQL aware -
> > > which I don't think will help uptake. I made my proposal on this
> > > topic at [2]. I'll freely admit that it does not have the elegance
> > > of Henry's use of SPARQL to drive interaction from the client, but,
> > > what it does have is simplicity! It is sort of like "duck-typed
> > > creation" .... it doesn't offer anything elaborate (repeated,
> > > options, etc.) at the moment.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the reminder for this subthread which was raised 
> initially in
> > > > the discussion about Issue-33... but... what exactly is the 
> point that
> > > > Henry was after during today's meeting ?
> > > >
> > > > I'm not sure it is strictly related to issue 33 but maybe more 
> to other
> > > > issues about discovery of the expected POST content, etc.
> > > >
> > > > Would you mind clarifying, and maybe propose a particular open 
> issue we
> > > > should tackle during the next meeting where Henry's proposal 
> would help
> > > > (providing that we got rid of the "opening raised issues phase" 
> before
> > > > ;) ?
> > >
> > > hi Olivier,
> > >
> > > I am happy to have a go and summarise the state of this topic.
> > > This could be a starting point for discussions at the next meeting.
> > >
> > > Roger
> > >
> >
>
> > --
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Kingsley Idehen
> > Founder & CEO
> > OpenLink Software
> > Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com <http://www.openlinksw.com/>
> > Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen 
> <http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/%7Ekidehen>
> > Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
> > Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
> > LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
> >
> >
> >
> >


-- 

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen	
Founder & CEO
OpenLink Software
Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen
Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about
LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen







Received on Wednesday, 21 November 2012 14:24:43 UTC

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