Re: AR Web

Moreover custom elements require a prefix:
https://www.webcomponents.org/community/articles/how-should-i-name-my-element
On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 9:53 PM Rik Cabanier <rcabanier@magicleap.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 9:20 PM kevin curry <kmcurry@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Glad to be on the same page. Your markup example definitely makes clear
>> sense to me
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.linkedin.com_in_kevincurry_&d=DwMFaQ&c=0ia8zh_eZtQM1JEjWgVLZg&r=jahSgznxrAL5kPgsRvs7bhKUEd9M5X0d-NE2WJg7VT0&m=O8S5EwUfDNs5iuePSaiv1-bHGY8C42oEx4FkBKz27ZY&s=Qi7JTxoKPjmiyM52E9qu7JlsA0UzxmTxtV0fw3br0gs&e=>
>> in that context.
>>
>> By the way, why not ditch the ml- prefix? FBX describes the model's
>> format and <model src="..."> should be understood by anything that can
>> render FBX, just like <img src="..."> can render JPG, PNG, etc. The ml-
>> prefix inhibits interoperability
>>
>
> The element names are created by our JavaScript library. They are not
> meant to be standardized and are not part of the browser code. (See
> See my question in
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-immersive-web/2018Aug/0071.html
>
>
>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 11:13 PM Rik Cabanier <rcabanier@magicleap.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 5:10 PM kevin curry <kmcurry@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I do. There were many examples of what Pete referenced, and they were
>>>> all bad. The serious, short answer is evolution. What you are talking about
>>>> now, Rik, is no longer the same as what Pete referenced. I think hardware,
>>>> perhaps in AR specifically, is the strongest influence. But the scenario
>>>> was thought about differently then that what I think you mean now. Then it
>>>> was to figure out: how can we get our existing (2D) tools, like web
>>>> browsers/pages into our 3D space? Eventually it assumed all of the
>>>> functionality of browsers. I mean explicitly, we implemented web browsers
>>>> (and other 2D tools) inside 3D worlds. What I think you mean now, Rik, is
>>>> an evolved scenario, enabled by much improved AR hardware, handshaking
>>>> standards, and possibly some re usability of HTML/CSS between the page and
>>>> an augmented space. I'm thinking about it like this - I could be way off:
>>>> I'm looking at my phone at a model on Sketchfab. I put on Magic Leap and I
>>>> look at the web page. The model I'm looking at in Sketchfab on by browser
>>>> is now in the room in front of me.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Correct.
>>> For instance, take this small example of HTML from Prismatic:
>>>
>>> <ml-model src="whale.fbx"
>>>
>>>    style="width:300px; height:300px"
>>>
>>>    z-offset="500px"> </ml-model>
>>>
>>>
>>> ml-model is a custom element that is laid out like any regular DOM
>>> element. Prismatic will then load and display 'whale.fbx' in the exact
>>> location of that element but floating 500px in front of it and sized to the
>>> CSS box.
>>> When the element scrolls, the model will scroll along with it. If the
>>> element scrolls out of view, the model will disappear.
>>>
>>> This is indeed the reverse of what some people have been working on.
>>> (Bring web browsers into 3D)
>>> It's conceptually much simpler since we rely on established browser
>>> interactions and UI. I believe this also solves a lot of security problems.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 6:52 PM Rik Cabanier <rcabanier@magicleap.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 2:49 PM Pete Markiewicz <pindiespace@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd have to say - this has already been tried. About 10 years ago,
>>>>>> there was a browser (Australian company, but I can't remember the name)
>>>>>> that specifically levitated standard HTML elements into the third
>>>>>> dimension. Went nowhere.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you remember why?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 19, 2018 at 12:52 PM, Josh Carpenter <
>>>>>> joshcarpenter@google.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > Is it HTML elements in VR that is dead, or decomposable content in
>>>>>>> a regular web page? (or both?)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Specifically we were investigating the ability to  take a
>>>>>>> traditional 2D HTML/CSS page, loaded in a XR viewing context (eg VR HMD),
>>>>>>> and progressively enhance it into a 3D composition, by using styles (eg 3D
>>>>>>> transforms) to position flat ements in 3D space, beyond the bounds of the
>>>>>>> parent window.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The was part of a broader push to explore composable, declarative XR
>>>>>>> web layout standards. Distinct from imperative WebXR / WebGL.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It’s not “dead” per se, as it wasn’t ever really alive. Aside from
>>>>>>> some very cool prototypes built on Firefox by my MozVR colleagues back in
>>>>>>> 2015 (code that, AFAIK, was never merged to master).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rather, in the past six months our squad has deemed this approach
>>>>>>> probably too hard to be worth pursuing, relative to other approaches closer
>>>>>>> to what we’re talking about in this thread.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 8:15 PM Rik Cabanier <
>>>>>>> rcabanier@magicleap.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 2:54 PM Josh Carpenter <
>>>>>>>> joshcarpenter@google.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You might find those links I posted in my initial response
>>>>>>>>> interesting, John. I was for a while very enamored with the idea of being
>>>>>>>>> able to break page layouts into compositions in 3D space by leveraging CSS
>>>>>>>>> 3D transforms. At Moz and Google we built some prototypes that, to my
>>>>>>>>> satisfaction at least, demonstrated that the approach was easy for a
>>>>>>>>> relatively experienced web designer/dev to work with, and surprisingly
>>>>>>>>> compelling/fun. Turn a Vimeo video into a 60 ft screen in VR with a few
>>>>>>>>> lines of CSS :) The framework that Diego Marcos and team built to help
>>>>>>>>> enable to experiments at Moz was actually a forerunner of A-Frame in some
>>>>>>>>> ways. But more recently, based on cumulative discussions with browser
>>>>>>>>> engine people, we’ve come to believe that approach would be extremely hard
>>>>>>>>> to make work in existing engines, at web scale, and that the much better
>>>>>>>>> place to start is composable models in 2D compositions. That’s not to say
>>>>>>>>> the dream of HTML elements in 3D space is dead, but more back burnered, at
>>>>>>>>> least in my team’s thinking.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is it HTML elements in VR that is dead, or decomposable content in
>>>>>>>> a regular web page? (or both?)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I can see that bringing HTML in VR would have a lot of landmines
>>>>>>>> around security and privacy but decomposable content should not be affected.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 2:30 PM John D. Gwinner <john@gwinner.org>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >>Is there a group that is currently working on extending
>>>>>>>>>> regular web pages with 3D content?<<
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I had an idea a while ago about extending Wordpress pages into 3D
>>>>>>>>>> objects; sort of "spreading" the page around in 3D space, but that's about
>>>>>>>>>> all I've done so far. It would suddenly inject a lot of default content
>>>>>>>>>> into the world. Sort of a "Minority Report" API (how I explain it to
>>>>>>>>>> Hollywood types).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I had a (traditional) publisher that wanted me to cover WordPress
>>>>>>>>>> alongside A-Frame and React in my second book (I wrote the book "Getting
>>>>>>>>>> Started with React VR[now 360]", but the acquisition editor insisted on
>>>>>>>>>> WordPress being covered in the second VR book "because it was another one
>>>>>>>>>> of the larger web API's."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It did get me to thinking ... there could be something to that.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> == John ==
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> *From:* Rik Cabanier <rcabanier@magicleap.com>
>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, August 17, 2018 3:23 PM
>>>>>>>>>> *To:* public-immersive-web@w3.org
>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* AR Web
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> last week at Magic Leap we released our browser Helio.
>>>>>>>>>> You can find an overview here:
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.magicleap.com/experiences/helio
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As part of its feature set, we created a set of extensions that
>>>>>>>>>> allows authors to create and manipulate 3D objects such as animated models
>>>>>>>>>> and textures. It also allows extraction so content can be pulled out of the
>>>>>>>>>> browser and placed in the user's environment.
>>>>>>>>>> To make development easy, we created a library called "Prismatic"
>>>>>>>>>> that provides a simple declarative syntax.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We'd like to iterate on our current approach with others vendors
>>>>>>>>>> and work towards an open standard that works on 2D, AR and VR devices.
>>>>>>>>>> I looked at the current community and working groups but couldn't
>>>>>>>>>> find one that covers our current use case.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My questions are:
>>>>>>>>>> - Is there a group that is currently working on extending regular
>>>>>>>>>> web pages with 3D content?
>>>>>>>>>> - If not, is anyone interested in working with us on this?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Please let me know if you want more details on our current
>>>>>>>>>> implementation. I'm happy to explain.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>   Rik
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Josh Carpenter
>>>>>>>>> UX Lead, WebVR/AR
>>>>>>>>> Google
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Josh Carpenter
>>>>>>> UX Lead, WebVR/AR
>>>>>>> Google
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> ============================================================
>>>>>> =================
>>>>>> *Dr. Pete Markiewicz*
>>>>>> *Email:* pindiespace@gmail.com
>>>>>> *Portfolio:* http://plyojump.com
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__plyojump.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=0ia8zh_eZtQM1JEjWgVLZg&r=jahSgznxrAL5kPgsRvs7bhKUEd9M5X0d-NE2WJg7VT0&m=V6s9YXNdmxw2uXJ_5xGLVR9dHh1ot8GJlLxD9w6IZc0&s=nobtEJABlN9Iwgv1wZHv3x1KQW1gph6BYfhjhVSBZqU&e=>
>>>>>> *Github:* http://github.com/pindiespace
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__github.com_pindiespace&d=DwMFaQ&c=0ia8zh_eZtQM1JEjWgVLZg&r=jahSgznxrAL5kPgsRvs7bhKUEd9M5X0d-NE2WJg7VT0&m=V6s9YXNdmxw2uXJ_5xGLVR9dHh1ot8GJlLxD9w6IZc0&s=Z0jsSqLhFmC7A5JRUAFpZPA8Zk46-mDNMFv0cCUs8Rw&e=>
>>>>>> *Linkedin:* http://linkedin.com/in/pindiespace
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__linkedin.com_in_pindiespace&d=DwMFaQ&c=0ia8zh_eZtQM1JEjWgVLZg&r=jahSgznxrAL5kPgsRvs7bhKUEd9M5X0d-NE2WJg7VT0&m=V6s9YXNdmxw2uXJ_5xGLVR9dHh1ot8GJlLxD9w6IZc0&s=z7u1c_tGQ_eUu7qlhnyg9fVfqm0wrWzU-KWE3RnNbSQ&e=>
>>>>>> ============================================================
>>>>>> =================
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *My "Ux in VR" presentations on Google Docs (note you can
>>>>>> comment)WebVR 1.0
>>>>>> APIhttps://docs.google.com/presentation/d/13a29m0SbpTeItFP8fjrSoKNb7nsjAd4DC9lWnokWEfg/edit?usp=sharing
>>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/13a29m0SbpTeItFP8fjrSoKNb7nsjAd4DC9lWnokWEfg/edit?usp=sharing>Sustainable
>>>>>> Ux in
>>>>>> VRhttps://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1OTXaz3RuV0HWgM754PRMUC7d2KYVHH974s5hnAt53wk/edit?usp=sharing
>>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1OTXaz3RuV0HWgM754PRMUC7d2KYVHH974s5hnAt53wk/edit?usp=sharing>Sustainable
>>>>>> virtual design blog:* http://sustainablevirtualdesign.wordpress.com
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__sustainablevirtualdesign.wordpress.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=0ia8zh_eZtQM1JEjWgVLZg&r=jahSgznxrAL5kPgsRvs7bhKUEd9M5X0d-NE2WJg7VT0&m=V6s9YXNdmxw2uXJ_5xGLVR9dHh1ot8GJlLxD9w6IZc0&s=4fBaHb4RVGTcTLSqhOU-NPYCp_dTpdHG6Vvs8bUf8iA&e=>
>>>>>> *Sustainability template:* http://greenboilerplate.com
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__greenboilerplate.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=0ia8zh_eZtQM1JEjWgVLZg&r=jahSgznxrAL5kPgsRvs7bhKUEd9M5X0d-NE2WJg7VT0&m=V6s9YXNdmxw2uXJ_5xGLVR9dHh1ot8GJlLxD9w6IZc0&s=cguDi-PU8IsqSt9ZxuAekf6srqpLfGK6Vn7KKlaS4rw&e=>
>>>>>> *Sustainable Ux in Virtual Reality for Sustainable Ux 2017
>>>>>> (narrated): *
>>>>>> *https://youtu.be/bU0tz05lcBw
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__youtu.be_bU0tz05lcBw&d=DwMFaQ&c=0ia8zh_eZtQM1JEjWgVLZg&r=jahSgznxrAL5kPgsRvs7bhKUEd9M5X0d-NE2WJg7VT0&m=V6s9YXNdmxw2uXJ_5xGLVR9dHh1ot8GJlLxD9w6IZc0&s=A6efN4akNQhNM7TkafUQ2p0eWVtPSP7uqCNHjYE8KrM&e=>*
>>>>>> ============================================================
>>>>>> =================
>>>>>> *Buy my book! *- Millennials and the Popular Culture
>>>>>> *Lifecourse:* http://www.lifecourse.com/store/catalog/lca/mpc.html
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.lifecourse.com_store_catalog_lca_mpc.html&d=DwMFaQ&c=0ia8zh_eZtQM1JEjWgVLZg&r=jahSgznxrAL5kPgsRvs7bhKUEd9M5X0d-NE2WJg7VT0&m=V6s9YXNdmxw2uXJ_5xGLVR9dHh1ot8GJlLxD9w6IZc0&s=p0tcO1bSH_pIRmNicqE11Uz4PKOCTbGqIzXbR-X9GRY&e=>
>>>>>> *Amazon Author Page:*
>>>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Pete-Markiewicz/e/B0069VZ7BG/ref=ntt_athr_dp_pel_pop_2
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.amazon.com_Pete-2DMarkiewicz_e_B0069VZ7BG_ref-3Dntt-5Fathr-5Fdp-5Fpel-5Fpop-5F2&d=DwMFaQ&c=0ia8zh_eZtQM1JEjWgVLZg&r=jahSgznxrAL5kPgsRvs7bhKUEd9M5X0d-NE2WJg7VT0&m=V6s9YXNdmxw2uXJ_5xGLVR9dHh1ot8GJlLxD9w6IZc0&s=RvaiOQ2Ib9e2n8Gsd0CxAAdW8x7G_yVPkXecG-eOkmc&e=>
>>>>>> ============================================================
>>>>>> =================
>>>>>> *On that page, see my DARPA Grand Challenge 2005 entry video, "Team
>>>>>> Robomonster":*
>>>>>> *Team Robomonster *(DARPA 2005 Grand Challenge):
>>>>>> http://robotsthatjump.wordpress.com/category/team-robomonster/
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__robotsthatjump.wordpress.com_category_team-2Drobomonster_&d=DwMFaQ&c=0ia8zh_eZtQM1JEjWgVLZg&r=jahSgznxrAL5kPgsRvs7bhKUEd9M5X0d-NE2WJg7VT0&m=V6s9YXNdmxw2uXJ_5xGLVR9dHh1ot8GJlLxD9w6IZc0&s=S8fL7YyqlvRUht4RglLbMH2vcNwcc47nmaYJKmDxeGY&e=>
>>>>>> ============================================================
>>>>>> =================
>>>>>> *Indiespace *(1st to sell downloaded music, March 1994):
>>>>>> http://www.indiespace.com
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.indiespace.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=0ia8zh_eZtQM1JEjWgVLZg&r=jahSgznxrAL5kPgsRvs7bhKUEd9M5X0d-NE2WJg7VT0&m=V6s9YXNdmxw2uXJ_5xGLVR9dHh1ot8GJlLxD9w6IZc0&s=TG1xR_YjrzgJDWlPwR448gLGBvTf8J9gV7xUCgstioo&e=>.
>>>>>> Also see http://archive.org
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__archive.org_&d=DwMFaQ&c=0ia8zh_eZtQM1JEjWgVLZg&r=jahSgznxrAL5kPgsRvs7bhKUEd9M5X0d-NE2WJg7VT0&m=V6s9YXNdmxw2uXJ_5xGLVR9dHh1ot8GJlLxD9w6IZc0&s=nIEqooDQSb6JeBaIGZW-pjiJdTw7nkDXAyHn2I-YJ5I&e=>
>>>>>>  under
>>>>>> "Kspace.com" 1996 for our original site.
>>>>>> ============================================================
>>>>>> =================
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
Josh Carpenter
UX Lead, WebVR/AR
Google