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Re: WSTF teleconference Notes/budapest presentation

From: Tex Texin <tex@i18nguy.com>
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 23:05:51 -0400
Message-ID: <3ECEE18F.4679A322@I18nGuy.com>
To: "Addison Phillips [wM]" <aphillips@webmethods.com>
CC: Martin Duerst <duerst@w3.org>, public-i18n-ws@w3.org


The slides look good, and for those who have read the doc or attended your
session having it online is very useful. 
It's a bit sparse to point people that are unfamiliar to it online. It made me
think that we should add to the scenarios doc

a place where we list all 3 (or 4) terms with definitions, so when Martin or
others create online information it is easy to extract the definitions or link
to them.
I think links might be preferable as the definitions are likely to get some
improvements over time.

I also have some questions around data-driven- the next telecon should be a
good discussion.

Martin, what was the reaction of the audience and what kind of questions did
you get?


"Addison Phillips [wM]" wrote:
> Hi Martin,
> That's great. I'm glad it went well and I'm glad you were able to go.
> Slides look good.
> >
> > A day or two ago, I started to feel that our distinction of
> > - Localization-independent
> > - Service-determined
> > - Client-influenced
> >
> > is a very good one, but that it's quite difficult to put each
> > Web service as a whole into one of these categories.
> That's true. A service that itself is language independent may still
> need the language preference when generating a fault (for example).
> Another way to look at it would be that the pattern applies to the
> specific service (the method call that the SOAP processor eventually
> makes for you), not the SOAP cruft around it.
> >So what I
> > did in the talk was to say that these are aspects than can
> > appear combined in a Web service. That easily allows to
> > explain things such as the fact that faults should be
> > client-influenced even in a Web service that basically
> > is localization-independent. Also, it allowed to easily
> > add another point, data-driven, which is quite important
> > overall.
> I'd like to hear a more complete explanation of what you think
> data-driven represents.
> The example bullet points in the slides appear to be related to the data
> structure. E.g. the service's performance keys off which data is
> supplied. Is that what you had in mind? If I give you SI units, the
> service does something different than if I give you customary.
> If that's the case, that looks like service-determined "service
> determined sub-pattern" (we need to rename that one!). A case could also
> be made that this is an example of
> language-neutral-but-still-internationalized. (Yes, you still have to
> i18n your language-neutral services ;-)). In the latter case, the
> service does something different because of a piece of data that it
> receives. The fact that i18n folks feel some affinity for one piece of
> data or another doesn't really matter. Infering the measuring system or
> currency from a language tag or locale is prone to error.
> I should point out that you can have a language-neutral service (by this
> measure) that takes a language as an argument (inbound message data
> element). This is counter-intuitive, but what's important to the pattern
> is that the service, by design or policy, does not need information
> outside its parameter list in order to "do the right thing" for i18n.
> For example, this Java prototype is (probably) the "language-neutral"
> pattern:
> public String formatDate(Date d, Locale l)
> And this one is either client-influenced or service-determined (1st
> pattern) (depending on how the code is written):
> public String formatDate(Date d)
> I think we need to work on making this point clearer. As you may recall,
> the NYSE example in the scenarios doc we originally intended to use as
> an example of a different pattern!
> Deb had some good comments in this regard that I need to memorialize for
> incorporation.
> Best Regards,
> Addison
> --
> Addison P. Phillips
> Director, Globalization Architecture
> webMethods, Inc.
> +1 408.962.5487  mailto:aphillips@webmethods.com
> -------------------------------------------
> Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature.
> Chair, W3C I18N WG Web Services Task Force
> http://www.w3.org/International/ws

Tex Texin   cell: +1 781 789 1898   mailto:Tex@XenCraft.com
Xen Master                          http://www.i18nGuy.com
XenCraft		            http://www.XenCraft.com
Making e-Business Work Around the World
Received on Friday, 23 May 2003 23:06:57 UTC

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