RE: [I18N-WSTF] Teleconference Notes...

Attending: Kentaroh, Deb, Martin, Tex, Addison [chair, scribe]
Regrets: Mike, Takao

Actions:

 o Deb: to follow up with Noji following this call
 o Martin, Addison: Find out who WS-Transactionality is. Possibly consider liasion.
 o Addison: Explore charter modification with Richard
 o Tex: create use case(s) for "must match requested locale"
 o Addison: create requirements document skeleton from ULocale document.
 o Deb/Addison: looking at new WS docs from other W3C WGs to ensure we're not missing anything

General discussion:

Martin at WS meeting in Arizona. Any specific input would be helpful. Martin has 30 minutes tomorrow in joint session.

Martin: Appreciated Deb's note on "context" keyword. Discussion of context mechanism for WSDL. Deb thinks this will be defined (competing  proposals exist). Exchange of contexts will be defined in WSDL and elsewhere. Need to fit our proposals into this mechanism as it matures.

Note: WS-Choreography WG was started.

--- no additional actions --- so we proceeded to discussion of locale/language negotiation:

o "context" definition across WS, not just for i18n.
o "what" instead of "how" should be the starting part. IOW> we should work on "tags", not the exchange mechanism because we think that the "context" idea will be standardized elsewhere. 
o General agreement that locale should not be explicit most of the time. 
o General agreement: passing locale explicitly is a poor choice for designing a WS. We agreed about the nature of passing locale and programming model.
o General agreement: locale interpretation is a problem due to disparate implementations (see Kentaroh's list)

    --how much alignment/precision is desirable?
    --"tags" might take several forms: 
          i) tag
         ii) structure/data
        iii) urn (as a pointer to a) datafile


Discussed what forms a good usage scenario: collation is a good example.. business rules a good example.. SQL statements with implicit ordering also important. Example: "select all foo < ñ" (that's U+00F1, n-tilde)

Discussed reasons why "charset" might be useful or not. General agreement that we want to use Unicode everywhere and that charset is an XPG4 legacy value that might not have a place in WS locale negotiation.

   counter examples: WS container invokes XPG4 program in new thread-of-execution; JCA connection to XPG4 resource

Tex: wants to eliminate ambiguity of existing locale system. Specifying a locale and using fallbacks may be problematic in some circumstances. Need something like a "must match" with default of false. Tex to create use case for this.

Discussed why fallbacks are prone to failure, some are "sometimes wrong", and sometimes best practices can work.

Deb: suppose that no one does anything. We should compare scenarios in this area. Also: consider J2EE example of server-enforced locale.

Ultimately, we agreed on a "Goldilock's approach":
   "As closely defined as we can make the locale tags, but as open as possible."

Agreed that our next steps are to find agreement on the requirements so that we can pursue standardization of a tagging scheme.

In particular we need to write requirements and *also* usage scenarios. What is the general case? What is the usage case?

Group: Considered if we should modify our charter now to allow us to create this as a W3C Recommendation. Discussion ensued. Planned to create requirements in the next two weeks. We think that this document will give us enough guidance to decide whether to pursue a specific charter mod or whether to put this item to I18N-WG-Core or to WS-Arch.

Discussed idea of having FTF in Feb/Mar timeframe separate from IUC and in Boston area.

thanks,

Addison


> -----Original Message-----
> From: public-i18n-ws-request@w3.org
> [mailto:public-i18n-ws-request@w3.org]On Behalf Of Addison Phillips [wM]
> Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 3:04 PM
> To: public-i18n-ws@w3.org
> Subject: [I18N-WSTF] [REMINDER] Teleconference Tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> W3C-I18N-WG Web Services TF teleconference [WSTF]
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------
> Bridge   : +1-617-761-6200 (Zakim) with conference code 4186 
> (spells "I18N")
> Duration : 60 minutes
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------
> Day      : Tuesday
> Dates    : 14, 28 January
> Start    : 23:00 GMT, 18:00 Eastern, 15:00 Pacific, 08:00 Tokyo 
> (next day!)
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------
> Zakim information    : http://www.w3.org/2002/01/UsingZakim
> Zakim bridge monitor : http://www.w3.org/1998/12/bridge/Zakim.html
> Zakim IRC bot        : http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot.html
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------
> 
> REMINDER: the next scheduled teleconference for the WSTF is 
> tomorrow. If you have not used the W3C teleconference bridge 
> previously, please review the links above for instructions (it's 
> very easy).
> 
> SUMMARY: This is an important meeting. We'll be reviewing 
> activities related to people's positions regarding locales and 
> language negotiation. Deb and I have both sent positions to the 
> list. Please review these, as they'll be the main topic. If you 
> intend to send something for consideration, you should do it quickly.
> 
> I have reserved 9 total slots on the bridge. Since we've picked 
> up in attendence, I'm keeping the number steady for now.
> 
> Agenda 
> =============================
>            o Discuss Agenda.
>            o Discuss Action Items.
>            o Discuss next FTF meeting. Tentatively at IUC23 in Prague.
>            o Activity to take on locales and languages.
> 
> Pending Action Items
> ====================
> 1. Martin: will follow up with Russ Rolfe in case MS has any 
> space in Prague for an FTF. This is a low priority item.
> 2. Team: write up and send to list a "position" on the locale 
> problem (See notes below for what that means). Due prior to next meeting.
> 3. Deb: send specific comments on WSUS to list.
> 4. Addison: post tentative calendar of activities for year.
> 
> Usage Scenarios Working Draft
> =============================
> Can be reviewed here: 
> http://www.w3.org/International/ws/ws-i18n-scenarios-edit
> 
> 
> Talk to you then!
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Addison
> 
> Addison P. Phillips
> Director, Globalization Architecture
> webMethods, Inc.
> 
> +1 408.962.5487  mailto:aphillips@webmethods.com
> -------------------------------------------
> Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature.
> 
> Chair, W3C I18N WG Web Services Task Force
> http://www.w3.org/International/ws
> 
>

Received on Wednesday, 22 January 2003 21:05:55 UTC