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Re: Styling of embedded right-to-left text in source code visualization

From: Najib Tounsi <ntounsi@emi.ac.ma>
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 19:17:16 +0000
Message-ID: <46E1A3BC.5050203@emi.ac.ma>
To: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
CC: Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>, public-i18n-its@w3.org

Hi Felix,

Felix Sasaki wrote:
>
> Hi Najib and Richard,
>
> at least with Najib we discussed styling of "right-to-left" text in 
> source code visualization a while ago, 
Yes,
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2007AprJun/0036.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2007AprJun/0038.html

I've noted that rendering bidi text in source code is editor (or tool) 
dependent and have suggested that a user should set his/her preference: 
Override Yes or Not the bidi algorithm, so that, if Yes, punctuations in 
the markup  and  normal text can't interfere and give unexpected rendering.

Richard had already discussed this problem,
 http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-bidi.html#d2e277
but there is no satisfactory solution yet.

Editing source code is not a usuall activity so, between the next three 
lines
<p title="ATTRIBUTE">CONTENT</p> (normal styling)
<p title="TNETNOC<"ETUBIRTTA</p> (some browser styling)
<p title="ETUBIRTTA">TNETNOC</p> (memory order)
I prefer the third which is much sure for inserting a space for example.

> but now we are not sure what to do about this example:
>
> 1) 
> http://www.w3.org/International/its/techniques/its-techniques.html#AuthDir 
> (example 33, W3C on the right of the Hebrew text)
>
> versus this example:
>
> 2) http://www.w3.org/TR/its/#directionality-implementation (example 
> 33, "W3C" on the left of the Hebrew text)
>
> we thought that the ITS 1.0 spec would be right, but have discovered 
> now the visualization at
>
> 3) http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-bidi-controls (example 
> below "The HTML4 standard introduced markup to produce exactly the 
> same effects as these Unicode characters.". "W3C" is on the right of 
> the Hebrew text)
> So we need to discuss again what the appropriate visualization for 
> "right-to-left" source code is. 1) and 3) visualize as if the outcome 
> of the BIDI algorithm is overridden via the "dir" attribute, 2) is the 
> other way round.
In my opinion, assume that editors are doing correct bidi-rendering, 
i.e. W3C is on the Left of the text, and, may be, add the same note as 
Richard (On the top right of 
http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-bidi-controls):
"Note also that the examples of source text assume a sophisticated 
editor that resolves directionality of the source text correctly. This 
is to ensure that you understand the concepts being described. Many 
editors are not yet this sophisticated."

The question remains: For source text, is correct bidi-rendering 
desirable for a given user for a given need?

Regards, Najib
>
> Many thanks for your input in advance,
>
> Felix
>
>
>

-- 
Najib TOUNSI (mailto:tounsi @ w3.org)
Bureau W3C au Maroc (http://www.w3c.org.ma/)
Ecole Mohammadia d'Ingenieurs, BP 765 Agdal-RABAT Maroc (Morocco)
Phone : +212 (0) 37 68 71 50 (P1711)  Fax : +212 (0) 37 77 88 53
Mobile: +212 (0) 61 22 00 30 
Received on Friday, 7 September 2007 19:17:26 UTC

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