W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-i18n-its@w3.org > July to September 2006

[I18N ITS] Teleconference Minutes 2006-07-28 (issues list updated)

From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 01:26:35 +0900
Message-ID: <44CA3ABB.30604@w3.org>
To: public-i18n-its@w3.org
... are at http://www.w3.org/2006/07/28-i18nits-minutes.html

and below as text.

I also updated the issues list, see
http://www.w3.org/International/its/itstagset/issues .

Cheers,

Felix



   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                        i18n ITS working group

28 Jul 2006

   [2]Agenda

      [2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0101.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/28-i18nits-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Christian, Diane, Felix, Richard, Yves

   Regrets
          Andrzej, Sebastian

   Chair
          Yves

   Scribe
          Felix

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3459
         2. [6]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3466
         3. [7]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3491
         4. [8]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3494
         5. [9]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3495
         6. [10]call on Monday
         7. [11]conference in London in November
         8. [12]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3500#c2
         9. [13]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3502
     * [14]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

   <YvesS>
   [15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0
   101.html

     [15]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0101.html

   Yves: these are the topics for today

[16]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3459

     [16] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3459

   Yves describes the issue

   Yves just send a mail about that, see
   [17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0
   249.html

     [17]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0249.html

   rb Common (PCDATA | Inline - ruby)*

   Felix describes the mail

   Felix: we have to think through the processing changes as well
   ... e.g. about arbitrary nesting of ITS markup

   Yves: so we have to think this through

   <scribe> ACTION: Working group to think through processing
   implications about applying ITS markup to other ITS markup [recorded
   in [18]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/28-i18nits-minutes.html#action01]

[19]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3466

     [19] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3466

   <YvesS>
   [20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0
   120.html

     [20]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0120.html

   <YvesS> [[2-2: If an application claims to process ITS markup for
   the ruby data

   <YvesS> category or the directionality data category *in their local
   usages*, it

   <YvesS> MUST be compliant with the external specifications
   referenced for ruby

   <YvesS> or directionality.]]

   Yves: Felix said we should say: the conformance of external specs
   for ruby applies only for local and not for global rules

   Felix: and for directionality

   Yves: I'm fine with that
   ... but the second part of the question: do we need global rules for
   XHTML
   ... you say no?

   felix: do we want the HTML WG to add ITS markup to their scheme?

   <YvesS> RI: I'm also wondering whether XHTML 1.1 would need such
   global rules. If it does,

   <YvesS> it would be a good example to cite.

   Felix: sorry, I misunderstood, I agree with you and Richard

   Yves: should we change 2.2 as Felix proposed at
   [21]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0
   120.html ?
   ... no objections?

     [21]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0120.html

   Richard: what spec do you use for directionality?

   Felix: XHTML 2.0 . We might have to change that later if XHTML 2.0
   is not a REC in time

   Richard: if people use their own local markup for ruby
   ... what happens?
   ... if they use global rules
   ... does that mean they are compliant to ruby?

   Felix: what would happen to implementations that use ruby?
   ... what is the consequenses of associating them with ITS, like for
   directionality :

   <its:dirRule select"//p" dir="rtl"/>

   Felix: I don't know how to implement that, e.g. dir plus the
   bidirectional algorithm

   Yves: we don't have the need that ITS processes what dir or ruby
   allows to process

   Felix: I agree, that is what my proposal of 2-2 says at
   [22]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0
   120.html

     [22]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0120.html

   [[2-2: If an application claims to process ITS markup for the ruby
   data

   category or the directionality data category *in their local
   usages*, it

   MUST be compliant with the external specifications referenced for
   ruby

   or directionality.]]

   <YvesS> 2-2: If an application claims to process ITS markup for the
   ruby data category or the directionality data category, it MUST be
   compliant with the external specifications referenced for ruby or
   directionality.

   Richard: how about dropping this conformance clause?
   ... ITS is related to identifying what s.t. is

   Yves: yes, an ITS processor does not have to implement ruby display,
   also in the local case

   Richard: I had discussions what xml:lang means with the SSML people
   ... just talking about the markup is easier

   Yves: but we have to talk about the semantics

[23]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3491

     [23] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3491

   <YvesS>
   [24]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0
   201

     [24]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0201

   Example 22 and 23

   Yves: do the ITS people agree with the example? Could we go back to
   i18n core with it?

   Christian: I'm fine with the examples

   Yves: resolution, we go back to the i18n core wg

   Felix: I will make that for this and all other i18n core resolved
   issues on the weekend or next week

[25]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3494

     [25] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3494

   Yves: I would propose not to change the naming of the attribute ,
   Martin and Felix convinced me
   ... everybody fine with that?

   Richard: the difference between ref and pointer is sometimes
   difficult
   ... to remember

   Christian: I followed the discussion, I think we should stick with
   the current names

   Yves: o.k.
   ... Felix, did you do your action item on the data type explanation?

   Felix: no, pending

[26]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3495

     [26] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3495

   <YvesS> [27]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3495#c1

     [27] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3495#c1

   (Proposal from Yves)

   Richard: will you not change the name of the data category?

   Yves: no, we did not planned to
   ... should I rework the wording?

   (discussion about terms like "phrasal" and "inline" elements, or
   other terminology)

   Yves: do the others like my rewording?

   Christian: I'm not fine with the name "elements within text". The
   explanatory text is fine

   (various terms proposals: sub flow, ...)

   Felix, Richard: you could have examples in the definition section

   Richard: you also have to say that applications makes different uses
   of this
   ... which is fine

   <scribe> ACTION: Yves to reword
   [28]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3495#c1 taking
   today's discussion into account [recorded in
   [29]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/28-i18nits-minutes.html#action02]

     [28] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3495#c1

call on Monday

   Yves: who can come?

   Christian, Diane, Richard: can't come

   Yves: so only Felix and me will be on the call

conference in London in November

   Christian: November 16 - 17

   Richard: overlaps with Unicode

   Felix: don't know if I can go to Unicode, but can't promise

   Richard: it's a good place to talk about ITS, I think

   Christian: we only need to say who could present
   ... they would be happy to let us talk
   ... could I answer them saying that we continue to discuss who would
   present

   Felix: I would propose you, Christian

   Christian: I'd like to check with Sebastian

[30]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3500#c2

     [30] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3500#c2

   <YvesS> [31]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3495#c1

     [31] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3495#c1

   Yves: example where directionality uses different markup

   <its:rules xmlns:its="[32]http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its"
   its:version="1.0">

     [32] http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its

   <its:dirRule dir="rtl" selector="//*[@direction='rtlText']"/>

   </its:rules>

   Richard: I would put the selector attribute first in the example

   Yves: o.k. , everybody is fine with that

[33]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3502

     [33] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3502

   Yves proposal at
   [34]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3502#c3

     [34] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3502#c3

   Yves: how do we visualize that in the spec?

   Richard: good question
   ... I can show you what I did recently

   <r12a>
   [35]http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-bidi.html

     [35] http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-bidi.html

   <r12a>
   [36]http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-bidi.html#ri2
   0030726.140315918

     [36]
http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-bidi.html#ri20030726.140315918

   Richard: if that does not work, you could have a picture

   <r12a>
   [37]http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-bidi.html#ri2
   0060712.105633805

     [37]
http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-bidi.html#ri20060712.105633805

   <scribe> ACTION: editors to make the visualization of the
   directionality example work [recorded in
   [38]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/28-i18nits-minutes.html#action03]

   <r12a>
   [39]http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-bidi.html#ri2
   0060712.10592785

     [39]
http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-bidi.html#ri20060712.10592785

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: editors to make the visualization of the
   directionality example work [recorded in
   [40]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/28-i18nits-minutes.html#action03]
   [NEW] ACTION: Working group to think through processing implications
   about applying ITS markup to other ITS markup [recorded in
   [41]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/28-i18nits-minutes.html#action01]
   [NEW] ACTION: Yves to reword
   [42]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3495#c1 taking
   today's discussion into account [recorded in
   [43]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/28-i18nits-minutes.html#action02]

     [42] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3495#c1

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________


    Minutes formatted by David Booth's [44]scribe.perl version 1.127
    ([45]CVS log)
    $Date: 2006/07/28 16:24:20 $

     [44] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
     [45] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

Received on Friday, 28 July 2006 16:27:01 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Tuesday, 6 January 2015 20:43:08 UTC