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[I18N ITS] Teleconference Minutes 2006-07-24

From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 01:24:30 +0900
Message-ID: <44C4F43E.1070504@w3.org>
To: public-i18n-its@w3.org
... are at http://www.w3.org/2006/07/24-i18nits-minutes.html

and below as text.

- Felix


   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                        i18n ITS working group

24 Jul 2006

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/24-i18nits-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Christian, Felix, Richard, Yves

   Regrets
   Chair
          Yves

   Scribe
          Felix

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3126
         2. [5]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3290
         3. [6]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3292
         4. [7]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3492
         5. [8]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3494
         6. [9]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3495
         7. [10]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3496
         8. [11]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3497
         9. [12]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3498
     * [13]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

[14]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3126

     [14] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3126

   proposal for a solution at
   [15]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3126#c1

     [15] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3126#c1

   Yves describes the proposal from Felix

   Yves: how do you make the distinction at b)?

   Felix: you would need additional information
   ... e.g. an attribute as a "trigger"

   <YvesS> <img its:translate="yes" its:translateObject="yes"
   src="myimg.png" alt="My image"/>

   Felix: we still would not be able to identify the src attribute

   Yves: I can see the trigger at the global level
   ... but locally, you may have to define things for both cases
   ... i.e. the content and the object

   Christian: I see the problem for the local case

   Yves: would the trigger answer your concern, that we don't have
   anything for an object?

   Christian repeats the requirement

   Felix: should we make an substantive change now?

   Christian: we should not address this now, if it takes an
   substantive change

   Yves: we should kit the proposal that Felix made and discuss for the
   next version of ITS

   Christian: I already came up with many cases

   Yves: so let's pospone that for this version of ITS

[16]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3290

     [16] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3290

   <YvesS>
   [17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0
   068.html

     [17]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0068.html

   Yves: why my name in it?

   Christian: I got the text from one article of you??

   Yves: it's o.k. without citing me
   ... wording looks good to me

   Felix: +1

   Yves: let's have this as the official answer

   <scribe> ACTION: Felix to go back to Karl with our resolution on
   [18]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3290 recorded in
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/24-i18nits-minutes.html#action01]

     [18] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3290

[20]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3292

     [20] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3292

   Yves: we discussed that already a bit

   related bug at
   [21]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3331

     [21] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3331

   Felix: I wrote a personal reply to the HTML WG, see
   [22]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0
   061.html

     [22]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0061.html

   <scribe> ACTION: Felix to get back to the HTML WG to schedule call /
   discussion of XHTML Mod bug [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/24-i18nits-minutes.html#action02]

   Felix: would you agree with my reply? Could I sent it as a WG reply?

   Christian: We have a misunderstanding with respect to
   "modularization"
   ... XHTML modularization is an established term
   ... the way we use "modularization" does not fit with our use

   Yves: the term "modularization" is not in the ITS draft anymore,
   only in the BP document

   Christian: for e.g. DITA and DocBook, what do we want to provide?

   Yves: we just have BP how to use ITS, we have nothing people *have*
   to use?

   Felix: is a key difference that ITS is very free in combining markup
   declarations
   ... if you look at the conformance section
   [24]http://www.w3.org/TR/its/#conformance-product-schema : you have
   a lot of combinations of markup declarations, too many for normative
   modules

     [24] http://www.w3.org/TR/its/#conformance-product-schema

   Christian: somebody who uses ITS has to say what is applicable in
   her context
   ... as for XHTML, we have to see what is necessary in that given
   context
   ... so, an XHTML module will not need ruby and dir, because it
   understands it natively
   ... could we put this in the next charter?

   Yves: not sure, it bothers me that this should be normative

   Felix: I think the HTML WG wants us to use the XHTML Modularization
   framework for the whole ITS spec

   Yves: is the comment only about XHTML or ITS as a whole?

   See their proposal:

   > Modularisation allows you to add markup modules to a language so
   that

   > you build a language using building bricks rather than defining
   elements

   > and attributes separately. This helps consistency between related

   > families of markup languages. We think that defining an ITS module
   would

   > be a good way to help people get ITS into their markup languages.

   > Modularization is schema-language neutral. Once you have defined a

   > module, you can 'implement' it in any number of schema languages,
   such

   > as DTD, XML Schema or Relax. We're not sure what you mean by

   > 'proprietary' here.

   <chriLi> I'll be back in a minute

   Felix: that sounds to me that they want to have XHTML modularization
   normatively

   <scribe> ACTION: The whole WG to look at the XHTML modularization
   comment and Felix reply proposal at
   [25]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0
   061.html [recorded in
   [26]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/24-i18nits-minutes.html#action03]

     [25]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0061.html

   <YvesS> [27]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3492

     [27] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3492

   <YvesS> <Res>

   <YvesS> - <prolog>

   <YvesS> - <its:rules xmlns:its="[28]http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its"
   its:version="1.0">

     [28] http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its

   <YvesS> <its:translateRule selector="//msg/notes" translate="no" />

   <YvesS> <its:locNoteRule locInfoType="description"
   selector="//msg/data" locNotePointer="../notes" />

   <YvesS> </its:rules>

   <YvesS> </prolog>

   <YvesS> - <body>

   <YvesS> - <msg id="FileNotFound">

   <YvesS> <notes>Indicates that the resource file {0} could not be
   loaded.</notes>

   <YvesS> <data>Cannot find the file {0}.</data>

   <YvesS> </msg>

   <YvesS> - <msg id="DivByZero">

   <YvesS> <notes>A division by 0 was going to be computed.</notes>

   <YvesS> <data>Invalid parameter.</data>

   <YvesS> </msg>

   <YvesS> </body>

   <YvesS> </Res>

[29]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3492

     [29] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3492

   Yves: the change is fine with me

[30]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3494

     [30] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3494

   Yves: I agree with the comment
   ... how to make it clearer?
   ... maybe with the definitions?

   <YvesS> [31]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3494

     [31] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3494

   Richard: it does not say that you should point to an URI

   Christian: we have several attributes which could be called "xxxURI"
   instead of "xxxRef"
   ... e.g we would have "xxxUriPointer"

   Felix: is renaming necessary?

   Richard: having a sentence which says "the attribute must contain an
   URI" would be good
   ... that's what I thought

   <r12a> correction: The location pointed to by termInfoRefPointer
   must contain a URI.

   Yves: being able to fix that with a sentence would be good
   ... having an extra paragraph talking about the generality of ref,
   and saying that these are URIs, might be good

   Felix: I would be worried about the must

   Richard: it is a lower case must

   Felix: oh, I see

   Richard: how about changing "termInfoRefPointer" to
   "termInfoPointerRef"?

   Discussion of the role of the attribute

   <scribe> ACTION: Felix to make a better explanation of the data type
   of the "termInfoRef" attribute [recorded in
   [32]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/24-i18nits-minutes.html#action04]

   <scribe> ACTION: Yves to check where we have to make changes for the
   the terminology "ref" to "URI" [recorded in
   [33]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/24-i18nits-minutes.html#action05]

[34]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3495

     [34] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3495

   Yves: I made a proposal, you can see if it works better with you

[35]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3496

     [35] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3496

   "standardized wording"

   Richard: very editorial
   ... but every data category says the same think in a different way

   Yves: true
   ... it is also more difficult where the paragraphs for global and
   local is

   Felix: good idea (added after the meeting)

   Christian: agree

   <scribe> ACTION: editors to make the change described at
   [36]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3496 recorded in
   [37]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/24-i18nits-minutes.html#action06]

     [36] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3496

[38]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3497

     [38] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3497

   Yves: editorial
   ... agree

   <scribe> ACTION: editors to make the change for
   [39]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3496 recorded in
   [40]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/24-i18nits-minutes.html#action07]

     [39] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3496

[41]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3498

     [41] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3498

   <r12a> [42]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3498

     [42] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3498

   <r12a> proposed action for felix: remove duplication

   Felix: good idea

   <scribe> ACTION: editors to implement
   [43]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3498 recorded in
   [44]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/24-i18nits-minutes.html#action08]

     [43] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3498

   <scribe> scribeNick: fsasaki

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: editors to make the change described at
   [45]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3496 recorded in
   [46]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/24-i18nits-minutes.html#action06]
   [NEW] ACTION: editors to make the change for
   [47]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3496 recorded in
   [48]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/24-i18nits-minutes.html#action07]
   [NEW]ACTION: editors to implement
   [49]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3498 recorded in
   [50]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/24-i18nits-minutes.html#action08]
   [NEW] ACTION: Felix to get back to the HTML WG to schedule call /
   discussion of XHTML Mod bug [recorded in
   [51]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/24-i18nits-minutes.html#action02]
   [NEW] ACTION: Felix to go back to Karl with our resolution on
   [52]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3290 recorded in
   [53]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/24-i18nits-minutes.html#action01]
   [NEW] ACTION: Felix to make a better explanation of the data type of
   the "termInfoRef" attribute [recorded in
   [54]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/24-i18nits-minutes.html#action04]
   [NEW] ACTION: The whole WG to look at the XHTML modularization
   comment and Felix reply proposal at
   [55]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0
   061.html [recorded in
   [56]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/24-i18nits-minutes.html#action03]
   [NEW] ACTION: Yves to check where we have to make changes for the
   the terminology "ref" to "URI" [recorded in
   [57]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/24-i18nits-minutes.html#action05]

     [45] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3496
     [47] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3496
     [49] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3498
     [52] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3290
     [55]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0061.html

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________


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