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RE: New ITS syntax

From: Lieske, Christian <christian.lieske@sap.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:48:07 +0200
Message-ID: <0F568FE519230641B5F84502E0979DD104CEB5A6@dewdfe12.wdf.sap.corp>
To: "Felix Sasaki" <fsasaki@w3.org>, "Yves Savourel" <ysavourel@translate.com>
Cc: <public-i18n-its@w3.org>

Hello everyone,

On the issue of "locale" information:

>From my understanding, ITS should provide a data category which captures the
source locale and possibly even the target locale(s). I would derive the
requirement related to target locales for example from the comments which
Felix got during his visit to Xerox. Furthermore, I guess that 
http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0503ReqLangLocale really is about that flavour
of locale requirement (which corresponds to what I have in mind):

If a localizer does not know that a certain bit of content initially was meant
for a certain locale, or now has to go into a different locale, then the localizer
cannot work the way he would need to work.

Example: If a certain bit of content only was created for Germany in German, then
a localizer possibly would need to adapt that content if it were to be used in 
Austria (since in that country people might be more familiar with the term "Mistkübel" 
than with the term "Papierkorb" which from my understanding roughly correspond to "recycle bin").

I would argue that the availability of this type of locale information would be valuable
even it cannot yet be provided by means of standard values.

I am not sure whether Richard had this kind of information in mind for the language information
http://www.w3.org/International/its/itstagset/itstagset.html#datacat-lang

Best regards,
Christian
-----Original Message-----
From: public-i18n-its-request@w3.org [mailto:public-i18n-its-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Felix Sasaki
Sent: Mittwoch, 29. März 2006 03:52
To: Yves Savourel
Cc: public-i18n-its@w3.org
Subject: Re: New ITS syntax

Hi Yves,

Many thanks!

Yves Savourel wrote:
> Hi Felix, all,
> 
> Looking at 
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0301.html
> For tomorrow item #4 of the agenda.
> 
> Here are some comments:
> 
>> #About rubyRule:
>> ... 
>> <its:rubyRule its:selector="//span[class='ruby']"
>>  its:rubyBaseMap="span[class='rubyBase']"
>>  its:rubyTextMap="span[class='rubyText']"/>
> 
> Just a reminder: Don't forget the <rp> element that exists in the W3C ruby module.
> (And what about complex ruby constructs?)

thanks for the reminder. I have integreated
http://www.w3.org/TR/ruby/#abstract-def below. I used "xyzPointer", see
discussion at http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3017 .

I also created localRuby, see below.

> 
> 
>> #About langRule: The element langRule is used to express 
>> that a given piece of content (selected by the attribute langMap)
>> is used to express language information as defined by RFC 3066 
>> or its successor. Example:
>> <its:langRule its:selector="//p" its:langMap="@mylangattribute"/>
>> ...
>> #About localeRule: The element localeRule is used to express that
>> a given piece of content (selected by the attribute localeMap) is 
>> used to express locale information. Example: <its:localeRule 
>> its:selector="//p" its:langMap="@mylocaleattribute"/>.
> 
> Mmmm... I guess langMap and localeMap stay named like this while the other change to xyzPointer/PassThrough/Etc. 

no, I would change everything to "pointer", hence: its:langPointer .

One question: if
> the content of langMap is always an attribute, why the '@'? Is the value an XPath expression or the name of the equivalent
> attribute/element?

an XPath expression. It has the same meaning as all "pointer"
attributes: an XPath expression relative to the node(s) selected by
its:select, e.g.

<ns1:p myLangAtt=".."> ...

would be
<its:langRule its:select="//ns1:p" its:langPointer="//@myLangAtt"/>

> 
> Something tells me involving 'locale' before there is a clear consensus in the XML world on what is it and have a RFC3066-like
> reference for the values, is a bad idea.

you are right, I have dropped locale. Btw., Addison Philipps has given
me the same feedback :(

> 
> When you say "The value of @mylocaleattribute might be compliant to RFC 3066 bis, but this is not mandatory." then it means
> basically "use whatever value you want", and that makes it non-interoperable. I can understand <langRule> because it maps to
> XML/ITS-recommended way to specify language and there is value set define for it. But what is the use case for mapping a
> user-defined locale to ...nothing interoperable. Knowing the name of the attribute used for specifying the locale is not enough: one
> needs a defined set of values. To me, having localeMap may raise the false hope that ITS provides some kind of interoperable locale
> concept.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> -yves
> 
> 

Below the corrected syntax. A question: What is the latest state for
withinTextRule?

cheers,

Felix


namespace its = "http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its"

# having itsGlobal as the entry point of the schema serves as a wrapper
schema
# for an external rules file.

start = itsGlobal

itsGlobal = element its:rules { ns*, rule+ }

ns = element its:ns { attribute its:prefix { xsd:NCName }, attribute
its:uri {
xsd:anyURI } }

selector = attribute its:selector { text }

rule = translateRule | locInfoRule | dirRule | termRule |
langRule | rubyRule | withinTextRule

translateRule = element its:translateRule { selector, attribute
its:translate {
"yes" | "no" } }

#About locInfoRule: At the locInfoRule element, there must be either a
#locInfo element [not attribute] or a locInfoRef attribute. If neither is
#present, there must be either a locInfoPointer attribute or a
locInfoRefPointer
#attribute. There is an optional locInfoType attribute.

locInfoRule = element its:locInfoRule { selector, attribute its:locInfoRef {
xsd:anyURI }?, attribute its:locInfoRefPointer { text }?, attribute
its:locInfoPointer {
text }?, attribute its:locInfoType { "alert" | "description" }?, element
locInfo { text }? }

dirRule = element its:dirRule { selector, attribute its:dir { "ltr" |
"rtl" |
"lro" | "rlo" } }

#About termRule: In an instance document, we would need an attribute
#term="yes" to indicate a term. In the global rule, "being" a term is
#expressed via the name of the element termRule, hence the attribute
#term="yes" is not necessary any more. The attributes termRef and
#termRefPointer are alternatives. It is an error if they occur at the same
#termRule element.

termRule = element its:termRule { selector, attribute its:termRef {
xsd:anyURI
}?, attribute its:termRefPointer { text } }

#About langRule: The element langRule is used to express that a given
#piece of content (selected by the attribute langPointer) is used to express
#language information as defined by RFC 3066 or its successor. Example:
#<its:langRule its:selector="//p" its:langPointer="@mylangattribute"/>
#expresses that all p elements (including attributes and textual content
#of child elements) have a language value conformant to RFC 3066 or its
#successor. The value is given by the @mylangattribute attached to the p
#elements.
langRule = element its:langRule { selector, attribute its:langPointer {
text } }


#About rubyRule: The element rubyRule is used (1) to map existing ruby
#"markup to ITS ruby, which itself is defind in terms of the W3C ruby
#specification, or (2) to add ruby text to attribute values. Example for
#(1): <its:rubyRule its:selector="//span[class='ruby']"
#its:rbPointer="span[class='rubyBase']"
#its:rtPointer="span[class='rubyText']"/> . Example for (2):
#<its:rubyRule its:selector="/body/img[1]/@alt" its:rbPointer="."
#its:rt="World Wide Web Consortium"/> . It is an error if both an
#its:rt attribute and an its:rtPointer attribute occur at the
#same <its:rubyRule> element.
rubyRule = element its:rubyRule { selector, attribute its:rubyPointer {
text }?,
attribute its:rbPointer { text }?, attribute its:rtPointer { text }?,
attribute its:rpPointer { text } ?,
attribute its:rbcPointer { text } ?, attribute its:rtcPointer { text }?,
attribute its:rubyText { text }? }



#About withinTextRule: withinTextRule is based on Yves / AZ proposal,
#see http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=2878
withinTextRule = element its:withinTextRule { selector }

#locale usage of ITS are itsLocalAttributes, or ruby. Just for
#convinience, the span element contains the itsLocalAttributes.
itsLocal = element its:span { itsLocalAttributes, text } | rubyLocal

itsLocalAttributes = translateLocal | locInfoLocal | dirLocal | termLocal
translateLocal = attribute its:translate { "yes" | "no" }?

#About locInfoLocal: There must be either a a locInfo attribute or a
#locInfoRef attribute. There is an optional locInfoType attribute.
locInfoLocal =  attribute its:locInfo { text }?, attribute its:locInfoRef {
xsd:anyURI }?, attribute its:locInfoType { "alert" | "description" }

dirLocal = attribute its:dir { "ltr" | "rtl" | "lro" | "rlo" }?

#About termLocal: the attribute term is mandatory, the attribute termRef
#is optional.
termLocal =  attribute its:term { "yes" }?, attribute its:termRef {
xsd:anyURI }?

#On ruby: todo: still need to write the ruby content model, which is
#identical to w3c ruby, and global ruby rules.

# rubyLocal is defined in terms of
http://www.w3.org/TR/ruby/\#definition. The (rbc, rtc, rtc?) alternative
of the content model for the ruby element corresponds to complex ruby
markup. The minimal content model for the ruby element is (rb, (rt |
(rp, rt, rp))).
rubyLocal = element its:ruby { RubyCommonAtts, ((rb, (rt | (rp, rt,
rp))) | (rbc, rtc, rtc?)) }
rbc = element its:rbc { RubyCommonAtts, rb+ }
rtc = element its:rtc { RubyCommonAtts, rt+ }
rb = element its:rb { RubyCommonAtts, inline* }
rt = element its:rt { RubyCommonAtts, attribute its:rbspan { text },
inline* }
rp = element its:rp { RubyCommonAtts, text }
inline = text
RubyCommonAtts = itsLocalAttributes
Received on Wednesday, 29 March 2006 14:56:04 UTC

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