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i18n ITS minutes 2006-02-08

From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2006 14:44:00 +0900
To: "public-i18n-its@w3.org" <public-i18n-its@w3.org>
Message-ID: <op.s4ox7mn4x1753t@ibm-60d333fc0ec.mag.keio.ac.jp>

Hi all,

The minutes of yesterday's call are at

http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html

and below as text.

Cheers,

Felix

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                         i18n ITS working group

8 Feb 2006

    [2]Agenda

       [2]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0069.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Andrzej, Christian, Felix, Goutam, Sebastian, Yves

    Regrets
           Diane, Najib, Richard

    Chair
           Yves

    Scribe
           Felix

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]action items
          2. [6]draft document public or not?
          3. [7]action items (part 2)
          4. [8]timeline for ITS
          5. [9]action items (part 3)
          6. [10]call with DITA sub translation meeting
          7. [11]assign people to data categories
          8. [12]versioning of ITS
          9. [13]techniques document
         10. [14]other topics / business
      * [15]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________

action items

    <scribe> ACTION: Christian and Felix to provide examples for tests,
    and see if we can come up with a common set of conformance levels
    (ONGOING) [recorded in
    [16]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html#action01]

    mail on conformance with sample tests:
    [17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0
    133.html

      [17]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0133.html

    felix: we might discuss this during the week

    yves: please look at this during the week

    <scribe> ACTION: all to look at conformance tests
    at[18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JanMar
    /0133.html and give comments [recorded in
    [19]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html#action02]

      [18]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0133.html

    <scribe> ACTION: Yves to write a mail for the selector change (DONE)
    [recorded in
    [20]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html#action03]

    felix made the changes in the spec

    <scribe> ACTION: Sebastian, Yves and Felix to test the usage of the
    <its:ns> element, to see if it is usefull (DONE) [recorded in
    [21]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html#action04]

    Yves: I had some concern, but it seems to be useful

    Felix: I made changes to section 3.4.2 Dislocated Selection on this,
    please have a look

    <scribe> ACTION: Andrzej to start an article about the relations
    between various standards. (ONGOING) [recorded in
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html#action05]

    Yves: I have a few comments
    ... maybe it was not clear what I or others were expecting
    ... I expected "ITS versus other standards"
    ... your slides are a general overview of standards

    AZ: this is a state of the art of the standards

    Yves: yes, the different formats we have

    AZ: I will continue this in the next weeks

    Christian: From a process point of view:
    ... as you start of creating content for such a text
    ... this type of text was a kind of follow up from the Berlin
    meeting
    ... that is, then should one use ITS / XLIFF, how do they work
    together
    ... we need something like that very urgently

    AZ: I could expand on this

    Yves: we need to be careful to spend the time on ITS for the specs
    ... so please manage your time as much as possible
    ... so this action item has not high priority

    AZ: Now it is presentation like. I'll continue in the next couple of
    weeks to make it an article

    Christian: One detail question:
    ... on "TBX". Is it finished?

    AZ: It is still under discussion

    <scribe> ACTION: Christian to write a non-normative section on
    selection, at the beginning of the scope section. (ONGOING)
    [recorded in
    [23]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html#action06]

    Yves: Done and integrated

    Christian: and commented on it
    ... by Felix
    ... some background:
    ... I would like to integrate the changes which Felix asked for
    until the next working draft

    Yves: so when should we look at this section?

    Christian: We will continue the discussion

    Felix: o.k. Let's keep the list in the loop

    <scribe> ACTION: everybody to keep feedback on new sections 3.1 and
    3.2, until Friday [recorded in
    [24]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html#action07]

draft document public or not?

    general question: should the draft document in public?

    Yves: should we keep the link public, and have a stronger wording?

    Felix: would be fine with me.

    Yves: people might think that the editor's copy is the final copy

    <scribe> ACTION: Felix to add a strong statement on the top of the
    document about "editors" copy [recorded in
    [25]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html#action08]

action items (part 2)

    <scribe> ACTION: Everybody to read the spec and comment on the spec
    until the publication date (ONGOING) [recorded in
    [26]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html#action09]

    Yves: we need all comments until the next monday

    <scribe> ACTION: Felix to put up an agenda for the tech plenary f2f.
    (DONE) [recorded in
    [27]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html#action10]

    felix: it is only a first attempt
    ... how about a call?

    Yves: how about the 28th?

    Christian: how about 4 p.m. German time?

    <scribe> ACTION: Felix to make a telecon schedule with zakim
    [recorded in
    [28]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html#action11]

    Yves: I am fine with the f2f agenda
    ... another question, about the timeline

timeline for ITS

    Yves: it seems we will not have time for everything in ITS

    <YvesS>
    [29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0
    073.html

      [29]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0073.html

    we have to choose

    Yves: directionality and translatability are fine
    ... segmentation is important as well, but we don't have much time
    ... we need to have a thought on that quickly
    ... even if we would have to drop something else

    Christian: so "segmentation" is about identifying inline elements?

    Yves: that is only a part of the topic
    ... in general it is the question "how should things be segmented in
    an XML document"?
    ... beyond inline there might be subflow elements

    Felix: Yves started a wiki on that

    Yves: yes, and Richard and Martin said the topic covers more than
    inline versus block
    ... we need to talk about this often in the comming week?
    ... do you agree?

    felix: I agree, but what would you drop?

    Yves: maybe ruby?

    felix: maybe we could try to put it into 1.0, by just referencing
    the existing ruby stuff

    Yves: I am planning on dropping the constraints
    ... also maybe terminology
    ... because we only can identify terms, that's it
    ... the problem is, it is not sufficient enough for e.g. docbook
    ... it is useful, but maybe we need more

    Christian: the feedback we have so far on terms:
    ... it would be good to have a link to a term base, and (sorry,
    missed this)

    felix: I would also propose a span-like element

    Yves: dir, trans, seg, term, locinfo, ruby, span-like
    ... these should be in 1.0 of ITS?

    Sebastian: span-like is not a data category, but an extra tool to
    make use of data categories

    Yves: we would drop the constraints, though
    ... is it necessary to have them in ITS 1.0?

    Sebastian: it is not necessary

    Yves: we should discuss mainly these items and not s.t. else

action items (part 3)

    <scribe> ACTION: Owners of the modularizations to keep working on
    them. (ONGOING) [recorded in
    [30]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html#action12]

    Yves: I did s.t., have not sent it to Felix

    Sebastian: I have to put more words into my part

    Yves: how about DITA?

    Christian: I attended the DITA sub TC conference

call with DITA sub translation meeting

    Yves: we had a call with DITA
    ... we are putting a liaison together with DITA and ITS

    Christian: how is the situation?
    ... we had a meeting with a sub TC of DITA
    ... I am not sure whether this is a regular sub TC of the OASIS
    formal process
    ... I an wondering about this because if the sub TC is not bound by
    the OASIS process
    ... some of the issues related to IP seem to be much more
    complicated

    Yves: I think they are in the process of forming this sub TC
    ... even if we don't participate in those meetings
    ... the DITA committe would review our work

    Christian: one last comment: who wants to participate in the sub
    committee?

    Yves, Felix: maybe not, only if there is s.t. ITS related

    Yves: ok. So, now the last action item ...

    <scribe> ACTION: Yves to explore constraint support in CSS and
    possibly contact a CSS guru. (DROPPED) [recorded in
    [31]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html#action13]

assign people to data categories

    Yves: directionality
    ... any pending issue?
    ... I don't think so

    Sebastian: we need implementation examples

    felix: we could check this as the other data categories

    Yves: that is a good idea
    ... visualization related stuff would be difficult

    Sebastian: do we need to validate this?

    Felix: No, we can leave this to the HTML spec or other specs which
    define the visualization of this. I will implement the selection

    <scribe> ACTION: Felix to implement the tests for directionality
    [recorded in
    [32]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html#action14]

    sebastian: we need example documents, for all data categories

    Yves: we don't need to assign a person to translatability
    ... segmentation: I will take that one for driving it

    AZ: I would like to work on it too

    Felix: how about doing it together?

    Az, Yves: yes

    Christian: some comments:
    ... we have some easy mechanisms for identifying inline
    ... as Richard said
    ... so it might be good to start from the scratch

    Yves: o.k.
    ... terminology?

    Christian: yes!

    Yves: Localization information
    ... maybe we have solved the problem with the proposal from Felix
    ... described at
    [33]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0
    131.html
    ... I will implement that
    ... I will start an implementation of it

      [33]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0131.html

    Sebastian: well, all these things need more examples

    Yves: yes.
    ... ruby will be the next one

    Felix: I will go down that path

    Yves: span like element

    Felix: I will do that too

    Yves: in general:
    ... we need to do work on text, and the examples

    <AZ> zakim mute az

    christian: are all examples in the spec valid?

    Yves: I see two aspects:
    ... having short examples is good
    ... we have to make sure if they are valid
    ... one thing we could do is to use always one document
    ... so that we have some continuation for each example

    Christian: I am not sure if it is really possible

    Yves: we have to organize the examples better

    <scribe> ACTION: Everybody to think of how to organize examples
    inside and outside the specification [recorded in
    [34]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html#action15]

versioning of ITS

    yves: we need to have a versioning mechanism for ITS
    ... e.g. 1.0 very 2.0

techniques document

    Yves: I got only a few comments
    ... if you have time, please have a look
    ... the step between the wiki and the document is small

other topics / business

    Yves: none
    ... next meeting: next week, same time
    ... please comment as much as possible before next monday

    <GoutamSaha> Good Night Everyone

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: all to look at conformance tests at
    [35]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0
    133.html and give comments [recorded in
    [36]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: everybody to keep feedback on new sections 3.1 and
    3.2, until Friday [recorded in
    [37]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html#action07]
    [NEW] ACTION: Everybody to think of how to organize examples inside
    and outside the specification [recorded in
    [38]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html#action15]
    [NEW] ACTION: Felix to add a strong statement on the top of the
    document about "editors" copy [recorded in
    [39]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html#action08]
    [NEW] ACTION: Felix to implement the tests for directionality
    [recorded in
    [40]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html#action14]
    [NEW] ACTION: Felix to make a telecon schedule with zakim [recorded
    in [41]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html#action11]

      [35]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0133.html

    [PENDING] ACTION: Andrzej to start an article about the relations
    between various standards. [recorded in
    [42]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html#action05]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Christian and Felix to provide examples for tests,
    and see if we can come up with a common set of conformance levels
    [recorded in
    [43]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html#action01]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Christian to write a non-normative section on
    selection, at the beginning of the scope section. [recorded in
    [44]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html#action06]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Everybody to read the spec and comment on the spec
    until the publication date [recorded in
    [45]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html#action09]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Owners of the modularizations to keep working on
    them. [recorded in
    [46]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html#action12]

    [DONE] ACTION: Felix to put up an agenda for the tech plenary f2f.
    [recorded in
    [47]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html#action10]
    [DONE] ACTION: Sebastian, Yves and Felix to test the usage of the
    element, to see if it is usefull [recorded in
    [48]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html#action04]
    [DONE] ACTION: Yves to write a mail for the selector change
    [recorded in
    [49]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html#action03]

    [DROPPED] ACTION: Yves to explore constraint support in CSS and
    possibly contact a CSS guru. [recorded in
    [50]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html#action13]

    [End of minutes]
      _________________________________________________________


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