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RE: Localization Properties

From: Lieske, Christian <christian.lieske@sap.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:26:18 +0100
Message-ID: <0F568FE519230641B5F84502E0979DD1043F9E01@dewdfe12.wdf.sap.corp>
To: "Felix Sasaki" <fsasaki@w3.org>, <public-i18n-its@w3.org>

Hi Felix,

I can understand your confusion ... It's presumably based on the very
question that the text tries to answer: How do we tell apart
localization
directives and localization properties?

If I remember correctly, we indeed said "we will not do localization
properties". However, from my understanding we also found that the
approach/techniques we are developing might be used for localization
properties.

Our confusion might stem from the power of the approach/techniques
we have already in place. Looking at a definition of localization
directives and localization properties which Yves used a while ago
(see http://www.w3.org/2002/02/01-i18n-workshop/Savourel.html) I see
that we can cover both: vocabulary-level information and document-level
annotiations (localization properties and localization directives in
Yves' terms). 

Thus, we cannot use the vocabulary-level vs. document-level
distinction.

Your remark about the equivalency of in-situ and dislocated
ITS information is correct.

Thus, we cannot use the level of metadata as a distinction.

The only distinction which thus remains is that between in-situ
and dislocated ... If this distinction is not sufficient, we may
not be able to postulate a diffence between directives and properties
...

Best regards,
Christian
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Felix Sasaki [mailto:fsasaki@w3.org] 
Sent: Montag, 19. Dezember 2005 09:24
To: Lieske, Christian; public-i18n-its@w3.org
Subject: Re: Localization Properties

Hi Christian,

I am a little bit confused because I thought we would not do
localization  
properties within the ITS tagset. Is this
<its:documentRule translate="yes" translateSelect="//text"/>
a localization property? Also, I see a problem with your definition

> Localization properties can be realized in a number of ways and in a
> number of places:
>
> 1. in a kind of header section in a certain content
> 2. in a separate file associcated with a certain content or content
type
> 3. in a schema

because "1. in a kind of header section in a certain content" can be  
constructed automatically from each in situ usage of ITS, e.g.

<svg width="10cm" height="3cm" viewBox="0 0 1000 300"
>      xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" version="1.1"
> 	xmlns:its="http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its" >
>     <text x="250" y="150" its:translate="yes">
>     Hello, out there
>   </text>
>   <rect x="1" y="1" width="998" height="298"
>         fill="none" stroke="blue" stroke-width="2" />
> </svg>

can be
<its:documentRule its:translate="yes"
its:translateSelect="/svg/text[1]"/>
so I don't see that this is higher level metadata (as you wrote),
compared  
to the in situ version. It is just a different place for the same  
information, and from in situ you can generate the dislocated version  
automatically, see "3.4 Mapping In Situ Scope to Dislocated Scope". Or
do  
I miss something?

Regards, Felix.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 23:53:20 +0900, Lieske, Christian  
<christian.lieske@sap.com> wrote:

>
> Dear all,
>
> During the F2F in Abingdon, I took away the action item to come up
with
> some text about "localization properties". Since we at least
> brainstormed the idea of possibly contributing the text as a GEO FAQ,
I
> divided my proposal for this text (see below) into question and
answer.
> As you can see, I decided to tackle "localization directives" as well.
> The reason for this is of course the intimate relationship that's
> usually assumed for these two concepts/terms.
>
> Unfortunately, the plain text format in this mail did not allow me use
> italics for some key terms such as 'in-situ'. Thus, I marked them with
> double quotes.
>
> Looking forward to your feedback.
>
> Best regards,
> Christian
> ---
>
> Question
> ========
> ========
>
> What do the terms 'localization directive' and 'localization property'
> mean, and how are they related?
>
> Answer
> ======
> ======
>
> Everyone has their own preferred definitions for these terms. We
provide
> some general, high-level descriptions here of how we tend to use these
> terms on the W3C Internationalization site. Both, localization
> directives as well as localization properties are related to
> standardized support for the internationalization (i18n) and
> localization (l10n) of content. Although the examples in this document
> are related to XML, the terms may be used in a non-XML setting as
well.
>
> Localization Directive
> ======================
>
> Any "in-situ" construct whose main purpose is "specific" support for
the
> internationalization (i18n) and localization (l10n) for a given,
> specific "part of content". An example of a localization directive is
> 'its:translate="yes"' in the following Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG)
> instance:
>
> <?xml version="1.0" standalone="no"?>
> <!DOCTYPE svg PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD SVG 1.1//EN"
>   "http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/1.1/DTD/svg11.dtd">
> <svg width="10cm" height="3cm" viewBox="0 0 1000 300"
>      xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" version="1.1"
> 	xmlns:its="http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its" >
>     <text x="250" y="150" its:translate="yes">
>     Hello, out there
>   </text>
>   <rect x="1" y="1" width="998" height="298"
>         fill="none" stroke="blue" stroke-width="2" />
> </svg>
>
> 'its:translate="yes"' expresses that the content of the 'text' element
> (textual content of element, including child elements, but excluding
> attributes) should be translated. Since 'its:translate="yes"' appears
in
> the 'text' element, it is an "in-situ" construct. Since
> 'its:translate="yes"' only pertains to a specific 'text' element, it
> only provides "specific" localization support for a given, specific
> "part of content". 'xml:lang' can be considered as a localization
> directive.
>
> Localization Property
> =====================
>
> Any "dislocated" construct whose main purpose is "general" support for
> the internationalization (i18n) and localization (l10n) of a given,
> specific "content type". An example of a localization property is
> 'its:translate="yes"' in the following XML snippet:
>
> <its:documentRule translate="yes" translateSelect="//text"/>
>
> This snippet expresses that the content of all 'text' elements
(textual
> content of element, including child elements, but excluding
attributes)
> of a certain content type should be translated. Since the snippet does
> not appear in a specific 'text' element, it is a "dislocated"
construct.
> Since it pertains to all 'text' elements, it provides "general"
> localization support for a given, specific "content type".
>
> Localization properties can be realized in a number of ways and in a
> number of places:
>
> 1. in a kind of header section in a certain content
> 2. in a separate file associcated with a certain content or content
type
> 3. in a schema
>
> In a sense, localization properties provide high-level general meta
data
> which can provide valuable information for i18n or l10n processes(e.g.
> configure localization tools automatically similar to a setting or
> initialization file). Localization directives, on the other hand,
> provide lower-level meta data (and for example override meta data
> provided by means of localization properties).
>
> Further Reading
> ===============
> ===============
>
> Internationalization Tag Set (ITS) http://www.w3.org/TR/its/
>
Received on Monday, 19 December 2005 13:26:36 UTC

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