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I18N ITS minutes 2005-09-14

From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:14:28 +0900
To: "public-i18n-its@w3.org" <public-i18n-its@w3.org>
Message-ID: <op.sw55mefex1753t@ibm-60d333fc0ec>
Hi,

The I18N ITS minutes 2005-09-14 are at

http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html

and attached to this mail.

Cheers,

Felix
   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                  I18N ITS WG

14 Sep 2005

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2005JulSep/0055.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Diane, Felix, Goutam, Richard, Tim, Yves

   Regrets
          Andrzej, Christian, Karunesh, Sebastian

   Chair
          Yves

   Scribe
          Felix

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]Review Action Items From Last Meeting
         2. [6]Action items for the f2f
         3. [7]f2t meeting during the technical plenary week feb - march
            2006
         4. [8]Requirements
         5. [9]New business
     * [10]Summary of Action Items

     _________________________________________________________________

Review Action Items From Last Meeting

   <scribe> ACTION: RI to contact person from W3C about feedback from
   non-wg members. (ONGOING) [recorded in
   [11]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action01]

   <scribe> ACTION: FS to contact person for ATOM (PENDING) [recorded in
   [12]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action02]

   <scribe> ACTION: CL and others to make research on data categories
   definitions (PENDING) [recorded in
   [13]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action03]

   <scribe> ACTION: RI to post an email to the Activity about the
   definition of "internationalization" and "localization" (DONE)
   [recorded in
   [14]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action04]

   ri: will be sent today

   <scribe> ACTION: CL to add a paragraph on the role of xml:lang to the
   summary section of the Language Identification requirement. (PENDING)
   [recorded in
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action05]

   <[16]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0503ReqLangLocale>

     [16] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0503ReqLangLocale%3E

   <YvesS>
   [17]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0503ReqLangLocale?action=diff&rev2=17&r
   ev1=16

     [17] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0503ReqLangLocale?action=diff&rev2=17&rev1=16

   <scribe> ACTION: FS to add a paragraph somewhere to the role of values
   of xml:lang in the Language Identification requirement. (DONE)
   [recorded in
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action06]

   <scribe> ACTION: FS to add a reference to RFC 3066 bis to the Language
   Identification requirement (DONE) [recorded in
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action07]

   <scribe> ACTION: FS to add an additional paragraph to the mapping
   requirement (DONE) [recorded in
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action08]

   <YvesS> [21]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0504ReqPurposeSpecMap

     [21] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0504ReqPurposeSpecMap

   <YvesS>
   [22]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0504ReqPurposeSpecMap?action=diff&rev2=
   15&rev1=13

     [22] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0504ReqPurposeSpecMap?action=diff&rev2=15&rev1=13

   <scribe> ACTION: TF to change the CDATA requirement (DONE) [recorded
   in [23]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action09]

   <YvesS> [24]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0503ReqCDATA

     [24] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0503ReqCDATA

   Tim: explains the changes

   Felix: looks good

   <YvesS> [25]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0504ReqCulturalAspects

     [25] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0504ReqCulturalAspects

   <scribe> ACTION: YS to add example based on Goutam input to the
   "Content Style" requirement (DONE) [recorded in
   [26]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action10]

   Yves: also made some corrections recently. One comment from CL is not
   addressed yet.

   <scribe> ACTION: YS to create wiki page for POS/related info
   requirement (DONE) [recorded in
   [27]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action11]

   <YvesS> [28]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0908LinguisticMarkup

     [28] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0908LinguisticMarkup

   Yves: feel free to comment on the wiki

   Tim: I don't know
   ... the idea of linguistic markup seems to mean a lot of additional
   work
   ... I think you cannot convince content authors to put this
   information in
   ... of course it is useful for machine translation or terminology work
   ... so it is useful, but maybe not useful for us

   Yves: yes
   ... maybe it is useful for the future
   ... there are many things that are specialized

   felix: for the future, it might be useful

   Tim: sure
   ... it is just more that we can do
   ... it might be other engineering

   Richard: Maybe we can ask Goutam to spread the idea around and find
   other people who are interested in the solution
   ... it is not part of what we think about in the first phase of the
   ITS Working Group
   ... we need to ground ITS in a general requirement
   ... we should transcope the need first, maybe for a later project

   Felix: Same opinion as Richard

   <scribe> ACTION: YS to edit its prefixes in "Limited impact"
   requirement example (DONE) [recorded in
   [29]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action12]

   <YvesS> [30]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0505LimitImpact

     [30] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0505LimitImpact

   Yves: any comments?

   <GoutamSaha> Every markup that ITS is adding is towards translation
   aids only. So, linguistic markup will be helpful for the translation
   process as well as for translation memory

   Tim: looks fine to me

Action items for the f2f

   Yves: Please think about co-editing one of the documents
   ... please work on the reading list
   ... Two action items for Yves and Felix
   ... to prepare "ruby" and "indicator of translatability"

   on participants:
   [31]http://www.w3.org/International/its/ftf-200509-Sophia.html#Partici
   pants

     [31] http://www.w3.org/International/its/ftf-200509-Sophia.html#Participants

   Richard: will hire a car

   <YvesS> [32]http://www.w3.org/International/its/ftf-200509-Sophia.html

     [32] http://www.w3.org/International/its/ftf-200509-Sophia.html

   <scribe> ACTION: Richard to hire a car for the f2f [recorded in
   [33]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action13]

   Richard: I'll arrive on Sunday and I'll leave on Thursday
   ... does that cause any problems?

   No problems

   Yves: other questions?

   An additional page:
   [34]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/i18n-its-f2f-logistics.html

     [34] http://www.w3.org/2005/08/i18n-its-f2f-logistics.html

f2t meeting during the technical plenary week feb - march 2006

   Yves: we need to know if we will have a f2f during that week, and
   which wg we want to meet
   ... we meeting will be in mandelieu, quite close to ERCIM

   Richard: Are we planning to have a f2f?
   ... technical plenary gets lots of wg together
   ... you get to meet other people and get them into your meeting

   Yves: second question is: how many people would make it to that
   meeting?
   ... timewise that time would be nice

   Tim: might be able to make it

   Yves: not sure if I can make that meeting
   ... Diane, how about you?

   Diane: I don't know either

   Yves: We should try to go for it

   Richard: important would be people you cannot meet easily
   ... e.g. the xml core people

   <scribe> ACTION: Yves to sent a mail to ask people whether they would
   come to a f2f meeting during the technical plenary week feb - march
   2006 [recorded in
   [35]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action14]

   <scribe> ACTION: Felix to think about WGs which ITS might want to meet
   during the technical plenary [recorded in
   [36]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action15]

   Richard: We should not reserve something if we are not sure

Requirements

   <YvesS> [37]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0505ReqAttrAndTrans

     [37] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0505ReqAttrAndTrans

   Yves: Fixing typos, changing the summary

   Richard: In the first WD, we did not have a link to the document Yves
   and I wrote

   Felix: That link must be in the WD

   Yves: In the cases there you have s.t. in an attribute, should we come
   up with a solution?

   Tim: We can make a recommendation

   Richard and Felix: discussion on attributes and translatable text.

   Yves: To me it looks complete, next time we should look at it.

   Tim: As a requirement it is fine.

   Felix: For me as well.

   <YvesS> [38]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0505ReqNamingScheme#preview

     [38] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0505ReqNamingScheme#preview

   Yves: XForm example from the xform wg would be good
   ... they had some example for localization

   Tim: This would only apply to well formed xml, or would the dtd have
   some different messages?

   Yves: No, it would be just the document, without the schema
   ... maybe we should mention that

   Tim: currently it is phrased that every dtd should follow a
   predictable naming pattern

   <scribe> ACTION: Tim to work on the naming pattern req [recorded in
   [39]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action16]

   Richard: the example with buttons
   ... xforms tries to go away from the "look" of the user interface
   ... e.g. "selector" might be better than "button"

   Yves: good point

   <YvesS> [40]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0505ReqWhiteSpaces

     [40] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0505ReqWhiteSpaces

   Richard: how about the bidi and the ruby one?

   Yves: We discussed it when you were not here, and we thought it was
   good
   ... we solution will be difficult

   Tim: Maybe we should move the potential solution to the note section
   ... so that people are sure that the req document does not contain
   solutions

   <scribe> ACTION: Yves to move some of the text in the note an reword
   the req on whitespace [recorded in
   [41]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action17]

   Ri: there is an xml:space attribute
   ... we say that css should be used for handling whitespace

   Yves: so that would happen only at rendering time
   ... so it does not solve localization issues
   ... the problem is that you get different types of formatting
   ... you get problem as you leverage that

   Ri: the problem are the cases there the carriage returns is
   significant

   Yves: the tools have to know when to normalize and when not
   ... in (x)html, it is clear

   Ri: defining it at the schema level would be a solution, right?
   ... so a requirement is to define one or more elements which are able
   to preserve / not preserve space

   Yves: we don't have a way that one should not collaps something

   Ri: talks about XHTML 2 approach

   Discussion about the whitespace problems

New business

   No new business

   Yves: see you at the f2f

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Felix to think about WGs which ITS might want to meet
   during the technical plenary [recorded in
   [42]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action15]
   [NEW] ACTION: Richard to hire a car for the f2f [recorded in
   [43]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action13]
   [NEW] ACTION: Tim to work on the naming pattern req [recorded in
   [44]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action16]
   [NEW] ACTION: Yves to move some of the text in the note an reword the
   req on whitespace [recorded in
   [45]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action17]
   [NEW] ACTION: Yves to sent a mail to ask people whether they would
   come to a f2f meeting during the technical plenary week feb - march
   2006 [recorded in
   [46]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action14]

   [PENDING] ACTION: CL to add a paragraph on the role of xml:lang to the
   summary section of the Language Identification requirement. [recorded
   in [47]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action05]
   [PENDING] ACTION: CL and others to make research on data categories
   definitions [recorded in
   [48]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action03]
   [PENDING] ACTION: FS to contact person for ATOM [recorded in
   [49]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action02]
   [PENDING] ACTION: RI to contact person from W3C about feedback from
   non-wg members. [recorded in
   [50]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action01]

   [DONE] ACTION: FS to add a paragraph somewhere to the role of values
   of xml:lang in the Language Identification requirement. [recorded in
   [51]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action06]
   [DONE] ACTION: FS to add a reference to RFC 3066 bis to the Language
   Identification requirement [recorded in
   [52]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action07]
   [DONE] ACTION: FS to add an additional paragraph to the mapping
   requirement [recorded in
   [53]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action08]
   [DONE] ACTION: RI to post an email to the Activity about the
   definition of "internationalization" and "localization" [recorded in
   [54]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action04]
   [DONE] ACTION: TF to change the CDATA requirement [recorded in
   [55]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action09]
   [DONE] ACTION: YS to add example based on Goutam input to the "Content
   Style" requirement [recorded in
   [56]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action10]
   [DONE] ACTION: YS to create wiki page for POS/related info requirement
   [recorded in
   [57]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action11]
   [DONE] ACTION: YS to edit its prefixes in "Limited impact" requirement
   example [recorded in
   [58]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action12]

   [End of minutes]

     _________________________________________________________________


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