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Minutes I18N ITS Teleconf 2005-08-24 (with additional action item)

From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 11:53:09 +0900
To: "public-i18n-its@w3.org" <public-i18n-its@w3.org>
Message-ID: <op.sv1mavr9x1753t@ibm-60d333fc0ec>
Hi all,

The minutes are at

http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html

and attached to this mail. Christian, thanks a lot for the scribing! That  
was very helpful. Please think all about scribing at the next meetings, to  
get practice for the f2f meeting.

I added an action item manually, which is - I think - quite of importance:

http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#actionitseditor

"(for all) to think about becoming an co-editor of the recomendation which  
describes the implementation of ITS"

Please think about this.

Best,

Felix
   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                  I18N ITS WG

24 Aug 2005

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Christian, Diane, Felix, Goutam, Karunesh, Richard, Yves

   Regrets: Andrzej, Tim
   Chair
          Yves

   Scribe
          Christian

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]Action Items
         2. [5]Discuss feedback from EML presentation
         3. [6]F2F Agenda
         4. [7]Req: Limited impact
         5. [8]Hotel for F2F
     * [9]Summary of Action Items

     _________________________________________________________________


Action Items

   <YvesS> public void CallHelp (string p_sFile)

   <YvesS> {

   <YvesS> MessageBox.Show("TODO: call help file "+p_sFile);

   <YvesS> }

   <YvesS> public void CallHelp (string p_sFile)

   <YvesS> {

   <YvesS> MessageBox.Show("TODO: call help file "+p_sFile);

   <YvesS> }

   <YvesS> [10]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0504ReqCulturalAspects

     [10] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0504ReqCulturalAspects

   RI: pending

   <scribe> ACTION: ITEMS to 1.2. FS to contact person for ATOM [recorded
   in [11]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action01]

   <fsasaki> ACTION: ITEM to RI to contact person from W3C about feedback
   from non-wg members (pending) [recorded in
   [12]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action02]

   cl: describes the rationale behind the change in the
   [13]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0504ReqCulturalAspects req
   ... ability to refer to non-textual content
   ... catching up s.t. from Tim
   ... he would like to see a controlled vocabulary for style
   ... I think we did not discuss that

     [13] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0504ReqCulturalAspects

   yves: do we need a mechanism for extension?

   <chriLi> ACTION: ITEM to 1.3. CL to put a note about content style.
   [recorded in
   [14]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action03]

   <chriLi> YS: CL has put in comments

   cl: having a recommended set of values would be nice (if it could be
   extended)

   yves: we have to look at style values

   <chriLi> felix: coming up with set of recommendations presumably will
   be difficult

   <chriLi> yves: I will modify the wiki page

   <chriLi> ACTION: ITEM to 1.4. Felix to create a reading list about the
   different mechanisms for mapping solutions. [recorded in
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action04]

   <chriLi> felix: reading list has been posted

   [16]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2005JulSep/004
   0.html

     [16] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2005JulSep/0040.html

   <chriLi> ACTION: ITEM to for all browse readling list and suggest
   subset which should be read [recorded in
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action05]

   <chriLi> yves: for next meeting please complete the action item

   <chriLi> ACTION: ITEM to 1.6. YS to adapt changes from WD into the
   wiki [recorded in
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action06]

   <chriLi> yves: done for everything labeled "WD"; in addition for
   "almost WD"

   <chriLi> ACTION: ITEM to 1.7. YS to adapt changes in the "Unique
   Identifier" requirement. [recorded in
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action07]

   <YvesS> [20]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0505ReqUniqueID

     [20] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0505ReqUniqueID

   <chriLi> yves: I have done this

   <chriLi> yves: ready for WD

   <chriLi> felix: think it is ready

   <chriLi> yves: will turn into WD

   <YvesS> [21]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0505Translatability

     [21] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0505Translatability

   <chriLi> ACTION: ITEM to 1.8. YS to drop paragraph from Indicator of
   Translatability requirement. [recorded in
   [22]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action08]

   <chriLi> yves: done

   <chriLi> yves: Req. should also be turned into WD

   <chriLi> Richard: Nice use case: indicate translatibility of keywords,
   or tags

   <chriLi> ACTION: ITEM to 1.9. YS to gather definitions for I18N/L10N
   from the various groups. [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action09]

   <chriLi> yves: discussed with Richard who now owns the item

   <chriLi> ACTION: ITEM to 1.10. YS to get information about hotels in
   Antibes, together with FS to find one hotel. (done) [recorded in
   [24]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action10]

   <chriLi> yves: will discuss at end of meeting

   <chriLi> ACTION: ITEM to 1.11 YS to take the requirements sections he
   owns in the WD back to the wiki. [recorded in
   [25]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action11]

   <YvesS>
   [26]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2005JulSep/003
   6.html

     [26] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2005JulSep/0036.html

   <chriLi> yves: basically done

Discuss feedback from EML presentation

   <chriLi> yves: Felix send feedback by mail

   <fsasaki> cl: one comment

   <fsasaki> .. about the usage of processing instructions

   <YvesS>
   [27]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2005JulSep/003
   6.html

     [27] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2005JulSep/0036.html

   <fsasaki> .. a comment from eric van der vlist

   <fsasaki> .. I heard that pi might not make it into a future version
   of xml - is it a rumor?

   <fsasaki> .. another point: only the syntax of a PI is standardized

   <fsasaki> .. that is, they can really be misused

   <fsasaki> .. I take erics comments very seriously, but we should take
   PI problems into account

   <fsasaki> Yves: I see PI problems as well

   <GoutamSaha> Hi Karunesh, have you decide to attend f2f meeting ?

   felix: even if sth. happens to PIs in a future version of XML, it will
   be backward compatible

   yves: I noted the comments on UBL
   ... presumably, UBL could make use of some presentational aspects for
   i18n

   richard: I guess we are not talking about presentational aspects, but
   about semantic markup

   yves: examples would be related to ruby and bidi

   felix: One solution would be to define sth. on an abstract level, and
   then recommend a concrete implementation

   <GoutamSaha> Hi Karunesh, we will have very good opportunity to learn
   the technologies from Yves, Felix at the f2f meeting

   felix: I suggest that we tackle ruby at our f2f

   <r12a> Dear colleagues,

   <r12a> The ITS WG would like to include definitions of
   "internationalization" and "localization" in the document
   "Internationalization and Localization Markup Requirements"
   [28]http://www.w3.org/TR/itsreq/

     [28] http://www.w3.org/TR/itsreq/

   <r12a> We thought the I18N Activity would have already something (at
   least for "internationalization"). But it turned out that we were
   wrong. As far as we can tell, there is no "standard" definitions for
   these two terms.

   <r12a> The GEO-WG has, some time ago, tried to worked out something,
   but set the work aside while it tried to find time to resolve some of
   the concerns that were voiced relating to the definition of
   'internationalization'. (The definition of 'localization' did not
   raise much controversy.)

   <r12a> It seems rather logical and quite important for our Activity to
   have a consensus on a definition for two terms that we see all over
   its published material.

   <r12a> The short definitions we used so far at the ITS-WG are close to
   the more elaborated drafts worked out by the GEO-WG. So it was
   suggested to start from the GEO's definitions. I have looked these
   over and changed a few things from the original wording, and Richard
   has made some other modifications based on comments made last October.

   <r12a> So, see below a proposed wording for "internationalization".
   Note that ITS may not need the last two paragraphs.

   <r12a> I'll send the draft definition for "localization" in a separate
   email thread to allow separate comments.

   <r12a> Cheers,

   <r12a> -yves

   <r12a> [29]http://www.w3.org/International/tutorials/ruby/en/all.html

     [29] http://www.w3.org/International/tutorials/ruby/en/all.html

   felix: If this would be on the reading list, would we be able to
   discuss at f2f
   ... I will prepare the discuss if Richard can critique my draft

F2F Agenda

   <YvesS>
   [30]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2005JulSep/004
   1.html

     [30] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2005JulSep/0041.html

   <scribe> ACTION: (for Felix) prepare Ruby info for F2F [recorded in
   [31]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action12]

   <YvesS>
   [32]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2005JulSep/004
   1.html

     [32] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2005JulSep/0041.html

   <scribe> ACTION: (for Yves) prepare indicator of translatability
   [recorded in
   [33]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action13]

   <scribe> ACTION: (for all) prepare possible questions related to XSD
   (see reading list from Felix) [recorded in
   [34]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action14]

   <fsasaki> cl: is there anything we should look at in advance?

   <fsasaki> yves: if you have ideas, please put them in writing

   <GoutamSaha> dear yves & felix, I believe that our two xml documents
   that I have sent you all over last two weeks are must for
   translability. You may think over it.

   yves: please share anything that may help to prepare for the meeting
   (e.g. thoughts related to the implementation of constraints)

   <GoutamSaha> Hi Felix & Yves, these two documents will be of immense
   help towards meaningful translability

   felix: WD should go out to the public soon after the F2F

   yves: we need editors for the additional documents; any volunteers?

   felix: I might be able to co-edit (with an additional editor) the
   implementation document, but I need a co-editor. please think about
   becoming an co-editor and check with your employer if you can get time
   for that.

   <scribe> ACTION: (for all) to think about becoming an co-editor of the
   recomendation which describes the implementation of ITS [added from
   Felix manually to
   [35]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#actionitseditor]

Req: Limited impact

   <fsasaki> felix: we need an additional editor, please think about it

   <YvesS> [36]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0505LimitImpact

     [36] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0505LimitImpact

   yves: felix, where should be put "The requirement in the Schema versus
   in the XML document"?

   felix: not having it in the req. doc (just in the guidelines) would be
   fine
   ... comment on namespace: read up on this in the tutorial on xml
   schema

   <scribe> ACTION: (for all) read up on namespaces [recorded in
   [37]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action15]

   yves: is the req "limited impact" ready for WD?

   felix: it's ready
   ... CL should take "definition of 'data category'" as action item

   <GoutamSaha> Hi Colleagues, we need to concentrate on how to narrow
   down the large domain of namespace. We are facing problem on handling
   such a large domain namespace.

   yves: We had a definition in our list of definitions. It vanished.

   <YvesS>
   [38]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0504ReqKeyDefinitions?action=diff&rev2=
   6&rev1=5

     [38] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0504ReqKeyDefinitions?action=diff&rev2=6&rev1=5

   <scribe> ACTION: ITEM to (for Yves) reestablish def for "data
   category" [recorded in
   [39]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action16]

Hotel for F2F

   <YvesS>
   [40]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2005JulSep/002
   6.html

     [40] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2005JulSep/0026.html

   diane: How do we travel from Antibes to Sophia?

   yves: bus or rental car
   ... I suggest to book Aldo
   ... The St. Charles would be a possible backup (since it is close to
   Aldo)

   <scribe> ACTION: (for all) book hotel [recorded in
   [41]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action17]

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: (for all) to think about becoming an co-editor of the
   recomendation which describes the implementation of ITS [added from
   Felix manually to
   [42]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#actionitseditor]
   [NEW] ACTION: (for all) book hotel [recorded in
   [43]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action17]
   [NEW] ACTION: (for all) prepare possible questions related to XSD (see
   reading list from Felix) [recorded in
   [44]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action14]
   [NEW] ACTION: (for all) read up on namespaces [recorded in
   [45]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action15]
   [NEW] ACTION: (for Felix) prepare Ruby info for F2F [recorded in
   [46]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action12]
   [NEW] ACTION: (for Yves) prepare indicator of translatability
   [recorded in
   [47]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action13]
   [NEW] ACTION: ITEM to (for Yves) reestablish def for "data category"
   [recorded in
   [48]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action16]
   [NEW] ACTION: ITEM to 1.11 YS to take the requirements sections he
   owns in the WD back to the wiki. [recorded in
   [49]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action11]
   [NEW] ACTION: ITEM to 1.3. CL to put a note about content style.
   [recorded in
   [50]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action03]
   [NEW] ACTION: ITEM to 1.4. Felix to create a reading list about the
   different mechanisms for mapping solutions. [recorded in
   [51]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action04]
   [NEW] ACTION: ITEM to 1.6. YS to adapt changes from WD into the wiki
   [recorded in
   [52]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action06]
   [NEW] ACTION: ITEM to 1.7. YS to adapt changes in the "Unique
   Identifier" requirement. [recorded in
   [53]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action07]
   [NEW] ACTION: ITEM to 1.8. YS to drop paragraph from Indicator of
   Translatability requirement. [recorded in
   [54]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action08]
   [NEW] ACTION: ITEM to 1.9. YS to gather definitions for I18N/L10N from
   the various groups. [recorded in
   [55]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action09]
   [NEW] ACTION: ITEM to for all browse readling list and suggest subset
   which should be read [recorded in
   [56]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action05]
   [NEW] ACTION: ITEMS to 1.2. FS to contact person for ATOM [recorded in
   [57]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action01]

   [PENDING] ACTION: ITEM to RI to contact person from W3C about feedback
   from non-wg members [recorded in
   [58]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action02]

   [DONE] ACTION: ITEM to 1.10. YS to get information about hotels in
   Antibes, together with FS to find one hotel. [recorded in
   [59]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-i18n-minutes.html#action10]

   [End of minutes]

     _________________________________________________________________


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