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Minutes 2005 08 17 I18N ITS WG

From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 00:31:42 +0900
To: "public-i18n-its@w3.org" <public-i18n-its@w3.org>
Message-ID: <op.svnr24o7x1753t@ibm-60d333fc0ec>

Hi all,

The minutes of the 2005 08 17 teleconf are at

http://www.w3.org/2005/08/17-i18n-minutes.html

and in this mail.

Cheers,

Felix


    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                   I18N ITS WG

17 Aug 2005

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2005/08/17-i18n-irc

Attendees

    Present: Christian, Diane, Felix, Richard, Saha, Tim, Yves
    Regrets
           Andrzej

    Chair
           YveS

    Scribe
           fsasaki

Contents

      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]Review of Action Items
          2. [5]List of current work items
          3. [6]reqirements
          4. [7]f2f meeting
      * [8]Summary of Action Items

      _________________________________________________________________


    <Saha> Hi dear colleagues, I am goutam kumar saha. I am working as a
    Scientist-F (Additional Director) in CDAC Kolkata. I am leading the
    (Bengali) natural language resource generation group and the W3C
    project group in CDAC Kolkata. I enjoy working on HLT.

    <YvesS> Hi Goutam. Can you join the teleconference call?

    <Saha> only available on IRC

Review of Action Items

    <scribe> ACTION: Richard to take contact with W3C about feedback from
    non-wg members (Pending) [recorded in
    [9]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/17-i18n-minutes.html#action01]

    <scribe> ACTION: Felix to contact person from Atom (pending) [recorded
    in [10]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/17-i18n-minutes.html#action02]

    <scribe> ACTION: Tim to put some rewording of a para on the
    translatability req (DONE) [recorded in
    [11]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/17-i18n-minutes.html#action03]

    <YvesS> [12]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0505Translatability

      [12] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0505Translatability

    Tim: Describes a change about loc properties / loc directives in the
    req

    Yves: that is O.K. for me. Anybody against dropping that paragraph?

    CL: fine with me.

    <scribe> ACTION: Yves to drop para from translation req [recorded in
    [13]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/17-i18n-minutes.html#action04]

List of current work items

    Yves: would like to move work items fast to wd
    ... sometimes slightly different wording (grammar etc.) in the wiki
    versus the wd
    ... so could the wiki owners update the wikis?

    Tim: Makes sense. Who are the document owners?

    Yves: We should do that for the ones which are close to WD.
    ... it concerns me and Masaki. I will do the changes, because Masaaki
    is currently offline

    <scribe> ACTION: Yves to adapt changes from WD in the wiki [recorded
    in [14]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/17-i18n-minutes.html#action05]

    <YvesS> [15]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0505Translatability

      [15] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0505Translatability

    <YvesS> [16]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0504ReqCulturalAspects

      [16] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0504ReqCulturalAspects

reqirements

    Yves: had some comments earlier
    ... could we talk about writing styles?
    ... that would be better than translation style?

    Tim: That's good.

    CL: You could be more generic if you talk about content style.
    ... for non-textual content, you are moving away from writing

    Yves: yes, we could have voice for example.
    ... we could have a voice xml file where the text is voice stuff
    ... should we call that content style?

    CL: yes. I'll make a note on the wiki page.

    Tim: If you add meta data to a document, you have to be careful. If
    you say cultural, it is still writing style.
    ... content style should apply to voice as well

    Yves: The content of the voice data could have a specific style
    ... we should be able to label it

    <scribe> ACTION: CL to put a note about content style [recorded in
    [17]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/17-i18n-minutes.html#action06]

    <YvesS> [18]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0504ReqKeyDefinitions

      [18] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0504ReqKeyDefinitions

    <YvesS>
    [19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2005JulSep/002
    7.html

      [19]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2005JulSep/0027.html

    Yves: discussion on I18N and L10N definitions
    ... this is mail from RI about that
    ... what should we do about that?

    Ri: Core said if Geo defines something for the whole activity, we want
    to talk about it
    ... ITS will have a definition of the terms as well
    ... we need to get all together to agree to something

    Yves: should we start this on the list

    Ri: we should use www-international@w3.org for that. everybody should
    be on that list.
    ... there is a discussion on the list about bidi, I will summarize
    that soon
    ... everybody has a different idea what the 2 terms mean
    ... so the list with 400 people is maybe not good
    ... maybe it is better to copy this to the mailing lists of the wg
    ... lists could be the public lists of the WGs

    Yves: there are less people in these lists than in www-international.

    Tim: Do we really need a canonical definition in the document?

    Yves: we need some kind of definition
    ... as long at it is a draft, it is not an issue
    ... we have time to do that

    Ri: we get a lot of comments on the current ITS definitions
    ... we maybe close to get agreement across the wg

    Yves: volunteer to gather the definitions?

    <scribe> ACTION: Yves to gather definitions for I18N/L10N from the
    various groups [recorded in
    [20]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/17-i18n-minutes.html#action07]

    CL: question: have you been working on definitions and decided not to
    publish them?

    RI: we made some definitions in GEO, but core said that they want to
    talk about it before publishing.
    ... we never got all the wg to get a common agreement so far

    <YvesS> [21]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0505ReqUniqueID

      [21] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0505ReqUniqueID

    Yves: one change
    ... xml:id became a proposed rec
    ... felix changed one example how to check unique ids with xquery /
    xslt
    ... could we move that as a wd?

    felix: two aspects of IDs: construction of IDs and checking of IDs

    Ri: construction of IDs can be made if we use document URI

    <scribe> ACTION: Yves to adapt changes in the uniqueness req [recorded
    in [22]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/17-i18n-minutes.html#action08]

    <YvesS> [23]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0503ReqLangLocale

      [23] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0503ReqLangLocale

    Yves: some rewording of 4 paragraphs

    <YvesS>
    [24]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0503ReqLangLocale?action=diff&rev2=14&r
    ev1=13

      [24]  
http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0503ReqLangLocale?action=diff&rev2=14&rev1=13

    Ri: comment
    ... RFC 1766 is obsoleted by RFC 3066

    Yves: we have to update that in the req wd too

    Ri: do you want to keep the wiki and the wd update all the time?

    Yves: no, maybe we don't want to do that for many of the reqs
    ... but here, we have to change the reference to rfc 1766 in the wd

    Ri: I ask when you want to do the changes
    ... do you work on the wiki or without it?

    Yves: It depends on the item
    ... the wd items, I do not want to use the wiki anymore
    ... because the changes would be very small
    ... we have trouble with the ones which are close to wd, and which are
    already in the wd

    Ri: How do we change the wd stuff? via mail? the advantage of wiki is
    that we see changes

    Yves: There are only a few differences between wiki and reqs, like
    grammar
    ... it is not simply copy and paste
    ... putting we wd text back to the wiki would be an idea

    Ri: I thought of that

    Yves: it is difficult because of the references
    ... but we could change the guidelines how to edit links in the wiki

    <scribe> ACTION: Yves to take the req sections he owns in the wd back
    to the wiki [recorded in
    [25]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/17-i18n-minutes.html#action09]

f2f meeting

    Yves: two items
    ... first agenda, than hotel

    <YvesS>
    [26]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2005JulSep/002
    3.html

      [26]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2005JulSep/0023.html

    Yves: describes a work plan: take one item and go through its
    realization
    ... try to find the different implementation solutions

    CL: excellent idea
    ... how could we prepare for the work?
    ... e.g. should we bring with us schemas and dtds?

    <Saha> Felix: we may need to keep semantic info at the attribute along
    with pos info towards meaningful translation

    Yves: We could have 2-4 reqs which would be discussed
    ... describes the first day
    ... second day: need to define the mapping solution
    ... not to reinvent the weel

    RI: felix mentioned an idea Masayasu Ishikawa used
    ... we could spend some time to see if it works
    ... we need time to spend time to discuss this approach
    ... create a reading list would be good

    <scribe> ACTION: Felix to create a reading list about the different
    mechanisms for mapping solution [recorded in
    [27]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/17-i18n-minutes.html#action10]

    Yves: we need also to work on the recommendation doc, on the last day
    ... we last day agenda will be derived from the 2 days
    ... another point: we need different scribes
    ... and one teleconf per day

    Ri: no problem for w3c?

    Yves: during the meeting we can post mails etc., and people can have a
    look at that
    ... AZ will maybe also come to the meeting

    <scribe> ACTION: felix to add tutorial material on xml schema to
    reading list [recorded in
    [28]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/17-i18n-minutes.html#action11]

    <YvesS>
    [29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2005JulSep/002
    5.html

      [29]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2005JulSep/0025.html

    <scribe> ACTION: Yves to get information about hotels in Antibes,
    together with Felix to find one hotel [recorded in
    [30]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/17-i18n-minutes.html#action12]

    RI: In Antibes we need cars. We could pick up people from different
    hotels

    Yves: Could we use taxis?

    Ri: I don't know the price, might be expensive

    Yves: Diane, CL, Richard, Yves, Felix, AZ, Najib on the f2f
    ... who wants to have a car?

    RI: have to ask w3c if we do that

    CL: try to avoid driving

    felix: the same

    Yves: So should we stay in antipolis then?

    Ri: I would drive

    Felix: I would drive too

    <Diane> I got cut off, but I will not have a car

    Yves: try to get a list of solutions for antibe as well, try to do it
    this week

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: CL to put a note about content style [recorded in
    [31]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/17-i18n-minutes.html#action06]
    [NEW] ACTION: felix to add tutorial material on xml schema to reading
    list [recorded in
    [32]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/17-i18n-minutes.html#action11]
    [NEW] ACTION: Felix to create a reading list about the different
    mechanisms for mapping solution [recorded in
    [33]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/17-i18n-minutes.html#action10]
    [NEW] ACTION: Yves to adapt changes from WD in the wiki [recorded in
    [34]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/17-i18n-minutes.html#action05]
    [NEW] ACTION: Yves to adapt changes in the uniqueness req [recorded in
    [35]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/17-i18n-minutes.html#action08]
    [NEW] ACTION: Yves to drop para from translation req [recorded in
    [36]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/17-i18n-minutes.html#action04]
    [NEW] ACTION: Yves to gather definitions for I18N/L10N from the
    various groups [recorded in
    [37]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/17-i18n-minutes.html#action07]
    [NEW] ACTION: Yves to get information about hotels in Antibes,
    together with Felix to find one hotel [recorded in
    [38]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/17-i18n-minutes.html#action12]
    [NEW] ACTION: Yves to take the req sections he owns in the wd back to
    the wiki [recorded in
    [39]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/17-i18n-minutes.html#action09]

    [PENDING] ACTION: Felix to contact person from Atom [recorded in
    [40]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/17-i18n-minutes.html#action02]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Richard to take contact with W3C about feedback from
    non-wg members [recorded in
    [41]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/17-i18n-minutes.html#action01]
    [DONE] ACTION: Tim to put some rewording of a para on the
    translatability req [recorded in
    [42]http://www.w3.org/2005/08/17-i18n-minutes.html#action03]

    [End of minutes]

      _________________________________________________________________


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Received on Wednesday, 17 August 2005 15:31:52 GMT

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