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[I18N ITS] Teleconference Minutes 2005-07-06

From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 00:37:44 +0900
To: "public-i18n-its@w3.org" <public-i18n-its@w3.org>
Message-ID: <op.sth0c6ekx1753t@ibm-60d333fc0ec>

You find the minutes at

http://cgi.w3.org/cgi-bin/html2txt?url=http://www.w3.org/2005/07/06-i18n-minutes.html

and a text version in this mail.

Cheers, Felix

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                             I18N ITS Working Group

6 Jul 2005

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/06-i18n-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Masaki_Itagaki, Richard Ishida, Felix Sasaki, Diane_Stoick,
           Andrzej_Zydron, Yves Savourel

    Regrets
    Chair:
           Yves Savourel

    Scribe
           fsasaki

Contents

      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]discussion of requirements document
          2. [5]f2f meeting
          3. [6]other business
      * [7]Summary of Action Items

      _________________________________________________________________

    agendum 1. "action items" taken up [from fsasaki]

    ACTION: Felix to contact person for ATOM

    Yves: [8]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0505WordCount

       [8] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0505WordCount

    ACTION: Richard to contact person from w3c about feedback from non-wg
    members

    AZ: worked on word count

    .. needs to check with wg if it meets the its reqs

    .. keept the previous comments so far

    Yves: leave that for next time until there are comments

    <YvesS> [9]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0503ReqSpan

       [9] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0503ReqSpan

    tim to lock at span-like element

    <scribe> ACTION: tim to lock at span-like element (PENDING) [recorded
    in [10]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/06-i18n-minutes.html#action01]

    <YvesS> [11]http://www.w3.org/International/its#work

      [11] http://www.w3.org/International/its#work

    <scribe> ACTION: Yves to reorder work items on main page DONE
    [recorded in
    [12]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/06-i18n-minutes.html#action02]

discussion of requirements document

    Yves: felix feedback from project review: we should publish very fast
    ... within days

    <YvesS> [13]http://www.w3.org/International/its/requirements/

      [13] http://www.w3.org/International/its/requirements/

    Yves: worked on document for reqs
    ... link shows current state of document
    ... we will have all work items there
    ... and just fill in what we have

    ri: you need a couple of things
    ... as part of the publishing process
    ... Yves and Felix will work through that process

    Yves: do we need a formal vote in the wg?

    ri: yes

    <scribe> ACTION: Yves and Felix to finish up the first draft [recorded
    in [14]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/06-i18n-minutes.html#action03]

    ri: we have to minute confirmation from the wg for publishing the wd
    ... that's one of the requirements for publishing

    <YvesS> [15]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0503ReqBackground

      [15] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0503ReqBackground

    yves: was there a comment from RI?
    ... there was only a few changes
    ... comments?

    (no comments)

    scribe: let's move it to WD

    <YvesS> [16]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0503ReqWhoShouldRead

      [16] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0503ReqWhoShouldRead

    yves: "who should read this document"
    ... some addition after felix comments

    felix: liked the changes

    yves: move it to WD?
    ... ok, it will be WD

    <YvesS> [17]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0503ReqOverview

      [17] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0503ReqOverview

    Yves: "Overview"
    ... addressing comments from RI

    there was an example at the end of the last paragraph

    <YvesS>
    [18]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0503ReqOverview?action=diff&rev2=4&rev1
    =3

      [18]  
http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0503ReqOverview?action=diff&rev2=4&rev1=3

    scribe: link shows the differences between the versions

    RI: like the changes Yves did

    Yves: not formal wording like in the reqs themself.
    ... move to WD?
    ... let's move it to WD

    <YvesS> [19]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0504ReqKeyDefinitions

      [19] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0504ReqKeyDefinitions

    Yves: "Definitions"
    ... at the top of introduction

    <r12a>
    [20]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0504ReqKeyDefinitions?action=diff&rev2=
    8&rev1=7

      [20]  
http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0504ReqKeyDefinitions?action=diff&rev2=8&rev1=7

    difference was trying to replace schematron by RELAX NG (request from
    RI)

    <YvesS>
    [21]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0504ReqKeyDefinitions?action=diff&rev2=
    8&rev1=7

      [21]  
http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0504ReqKeyDefinitions?action=diff&rev2=8&rev1=7

    RI: wanted RELAX NG, don't remember why

    Yves: will remove schematron, leave RELAX NG

    <YvesS> [22]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0506ReqConstraints

      [22] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0506ReqConstraints

    Yves: now about the reqs themselves
    ... "constraint" req
    ... main change after comment from Felix

    <YvesS>
    [23]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0506ReqConstraints?action=diff&rev2=10&
    rev1=9

      [23]  
http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0506ReqConstraints?action=diff&rev2=10&rev1=9

    felix: like the changes

    yves: other comments?
    ... so this goes also to WD.

    <YvesS> [24]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0504ReqCulturalAspects

      [24] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0504ReqCulturalAspects

    Yves: from masaki "cultural aspect"

    masaki: made some changes

    changed country name

    scribe: it was yugoslavia
    ... put something like a standard date format into it
    ... changed Japanese example

    Yves: one comment on that
    ... would the h(???) be better

    zh

    RI: you can specify that with the current system

    will be much better with rfc 3066bis

    RI: the chinese example states a problem, but doesn't say what the req
    is to solve the problem
    ... what do we need? xml:lang? tags? another mechanism?
    ... we need to specify that

    masaki: recently there is lot's of specs on locale and country codes
    ... do we need more? is there enough with the current system?
    ... e.g. the zh case already has a solution

    RI: I think there is now a code for swiss german

    masaki: how about aserbadjian?
    ... locale for aserbadjian

    RI: there is still work on that being done
    ... e.g. by the core wg.
    ... still a potential issue
    ... but we should say: why is it an issue, not in terms of the
    solution
    ... maybe met by the core work

    masaki: if it is discussed in core, i could point to the core group

    ri: hasen't been discussed yet.

    yves: we need additional informaion on locale, that's in the summary.
    Do we need more text e.g. in the challenges section?

    ri: concept of representing orthography will be representable very
    soon
    ... with rfc 3066bis other problems will go away as well
    ... all what is said in the summary will be possible to be managed
    with rfc 3066bis
    ... the question is: are we talking about xml:lang values
    ... or are we talking about other attributes related to locale etc.?

    masaki: I see the point

    yves: you want to talk about dates, calenders etc.?

    ri: if we need to specify locale for a date format
    ... that's something different
    ... so we have to say what we will focus on

    yves: we talk about xml:lang in another req

    masaki: this is an additional on top of it
    ... there should be more than xml:lang
    ... do we have other examples?
    ... somebody said "a date format could solve the req"
    ... you want to know whether Japanese uses wareki or western style
    time

    i.e. date format

    ri: I can see the scenario
    ... it's the other stuff in the req we have problems with

    yves: should we remove the two examples which don't fit

    <r12a> FAQ by Addison (in preparation) that has some bearing here:
    [25]http://esw.w3.org/topic/geoFAQxmllang

      [25] http://esw.w3.org/topic/geoFAQxmllang

    felix: would be hard to have a fixed set of values for a @context
    attribute

    ri: who would use the attribute?

    masaki: it would be used in the target language
    ... there is only one source
    ... as you translate, it could be translated in two different ways
    ... e.g. in the case of desu / masu
    ... if you reuse the content, you need information about the context /
    e.g. the writing style
    ... this is always about target languages
    ... example: italian users like different styles for user interfaces

    ri: do we have an attribute in the english source or in the target
    side?

    masaki: context could be specified in the english side, writing style
    at the target side (Japanese)

    ri: how would the attribute be used?

    masaki: for a cms, you have 1000 units of Japanese and english
    ... you might wonder if they are consistent with respect to writing
    style (in the target language)
    ... content builder would use this information

    yves: or translation memory systems?
    ... at some point the source becomes the target

    ri: could you rephrase the requirement as you just explained it?

    masaki: you're right.
    ... can change the requirements to writing styles
    ... will change the title to something about writing styles

    ri: locale is something we should continue thinking about

    masaki: will keep that in my mind

f2f meeting

    yves: started a page for the meeting
    ... one question was the hotel

    would a hotel close to antibe better or not?

    ri: I would prefer to stay in antibe, if we could get a car.

    <YvesS> [26]http://www.w3.org/International/its/ftf-200509-Sophia.html

      [26] http://www.w3.org/International/its/ftf-200509-Sophia.html

    yves: felix will update the page with new information
    ... we have to think about agenda in the three days
    ... need to organize it efficient
    ... as soon as you know whether you will come, tell Felix

    <scribe> ACTION: everybody to think about participation [recorded in
    [27]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/06-i18n-minutes.html#action04]

    masaki: is not sure about participation yet, will probably know in
    August

    yves: other comments on f2f?

other business

    yves: felix is team contact now

    ri: will still be here at the telecon
    ... I'll be helping Yves and felix with the practical aspects

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: everybody to think about participation [recorded in
    [28]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/06-i18n-minutes.html#action04]
    [NEW] ACTION: Yves and Felix to finish up the first draft [recorded in
    [29]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/06-i18n-minutes.html#action03]

    [PENDING] ACTION: tim to lock at span-like element [recorded in
    [30]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/06-i18n-minutes.html#action01]

    [DONE] ACTION: Yves to reorder work items on main page [recorded in
    [31]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/06-i18n-minutes.html#action02]
    [PENDING]ACTION: Richard to contact person from w3c about feedback
    from non-wg members
    [PENDING]ACTION: Felix to contact person for ATOM

    [End of minutes]

      _________________________________________________________________


     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [32]scribe.perl version 1.126
     ([33]CVS log)
     $Date: 2005/07/06 15:33:41 $

      [32] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
      [33] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

      _________________________________________________________________

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

    [Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.126  of Date: 2005/05/16 16:49:48
Check for newer version at  
[34]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

      [34] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Got date from IRC log name: 6 Jul 2005
Guessing minutes URL: [35]http://www.w3.org/2005/07/06-i18n-minutes.html
People with action items: everybody felix tim yves

      [35] http://www.w3.org/2005/07/06-i18n-minutes.html

    End of [36]scribe.perl diagnostic output]

      [36] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
Received on Wednesday, 6 July 2005 15:37:52 GMT

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