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FW: Minutes 2006-07-12: GEO telecon

From: Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:26:33 +0100
To: "GEO" <public-i18n-geo@w3.org>
Message-ID: <003601c6f209$02f90720$6401a8c0@w3cishida>

This was sent to the member list in error. 

From: member-i18n-geo-request@w3.org [mailto:member-i18n-geo-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Richard Ishida
Sent: 18 July 2006 17:10
To: member-i18n-geo@w3.org
Subject: Minutes 2006-07-12: GEO telecon


http://www.w3.org/2006/07/12-i18ngeo-minutes.html


Text version follows;


                              GEO telecon

12 Jul 2006

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/12-i18ngeo-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Richard, David, Russ

   Regrets
          Molly, Najib, Pasquale

   Chair
          Richard

   Scribe
          r12a

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]Agenda & actions review
         2. [5]Info Share
         3. [6]Feedback
         4. [7]CSS3 and international text
         5. [8]Specifying Language in XHTML & HTML Content
         6. [9]Language Tags in XML and HTML
         7. [10]Handling Right-to-left Scripts in XHTML and HTML
            Content
     * [11]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________



   <scribe> Scribe: r12a

Agenda & actions review

   <scribe> ACTION: Andrew, review
   [12]http://esw.w3.org/topic/geoEncoding and draft some more text,
   and discuss on 28th [ONGOING] [recorded in
   [13]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/12-i18ngeo-minutes.html#action01]

     [12] http://esw.w3.org/topic/geoEncoding

   <scribe> ACTION: Andrew, Work on comments for What should I consider
   wrt moving to UTF-8? [ONGOING] [recorded in
   [14]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/12-i18ngeo-minutes.html#action02]

   <scribe> ACTION: John, look at Getting Started stuff to provide more
   material. [ONGOING] [recorded in
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/12-i18ngeo-minutes.html#action03]

   <scribe> ACTION: RI, change the IRC channel in the agenda [DONE]
   [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/12-i18ngeo-minutes.html#action04]

   <scribe> ACTION: RI, send Andrew comments related to "What should I
   consider wrt moving to UTF-8" [ONGOING]

   <scribe> ACTION: RI, send out note asking for feedback on possible
   new names for 'primary language' [DONE] [recorded in
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/12-i18ngeo-minutes.html#action05]

Info Share

   David: on an anti-spam discussion group someone was trying to
   understand the Chinese - David suggested changing the encoding
   ... which led to a general discussion
   ... which led to discussion of GEO work and outreach

   RI: reviewing a chapter for a book by Liz Castro on writing XHTLM
   and HTML
   ... PeachPit book that sold over million copies so far
   ... has a chapter devoted to characters and encodings and language
   declarations
   ... so getting that stuff right is really useful for outreach
   ... book is entitled HTML, XHTML, and CSS, Sixth Edition: Visual
   QuickStart Guide
   ... due for release in August
   ... on i18n home page the blog post baout Molly's talk at @media has
   a link to two photos on flickr
   ... current viewing stats for those photos are 6,031 hits
   ... shows lots of people are visiting
   ... i spent time looking at the server logs

   RI: the rfc 3066bis matching spec has been approved by the IETF
   ... so now we are going through the final editor related stages of
   the process
   ... however this may still take some time
   ... until we have a number

Feedback

   RR: since june 1st we've had around 261 feedbacks - leading to about
   15 with comments
   ... ie. 5% with comments
   ... note that the feedback senders are a small percentage of total
   visitors, so that's good news
   ... some feedback is not related to the document - we should
   probably just leave these alone
   ... how should we process these comments?

   <scribe> ACTION: Russ, day before the meeting compile a list of
   outstanding comments [recorded in
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/12-i18ngeo-minutes.html#action06]

   RR: if we then have something that needs discussion we can address
   it in the meeting

   RI: suggest a wiki page for gathering comments

   Agreement

   RI: Someone is sending spurious comments all set to score of 1,
   often in batches - we should ignore those

CSS3 and international text

   RI: has been out for wide review for quite a while
   ... no comments so far

   Agreed to publish

Specifying Language in XHTML & HTML Content

   RI: Publish a new interim version?

   Agreed to publish

   RR: what's the process to include IE7 in the list of tracked user
   agents
   ... current release is beta 3 and likely not many changes, but won't
   be released until vista comes out

   DC: we shouldn't say anything about it until it is a released
   version

   RI: I guess i agree with DC

   Russ: ok

Language Tags in XML and HTML

   [19]http://esw.w3.org/topic/geoLangTags

     [19] http://esw.w3.org/topic/geoLangTags

   Comments on proposed text? Move to Working Draft ? When to publish?

   <scribe> ACTION: RI, move article to working draft [recorded in
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/12-i18ngeo-minutes.html#action07]

   RI: Should we publish before rfc3066bis has a number?

   DC: yes, with notes

   RR: if the intended readers can use it now, yes

   Agreed, publish as soon as ready

Handling Right-to-left Scripts in XHTML and HTML Content

   [21]http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-lang.html

     [21] http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-lang.html

   RI: i've been working away at this, bringing into the same format
   and approach as langugae BP
   ... and adding/developing material too
   ... any comments today ?
   ... Particularly new section on Problems with bidi source text

   [22]http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-bidi.html#d2e
   276

     [22] http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-bidi.html#d2e276

   [23]http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-bidi.html#d2e
   278

     [23] http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-bidi.html#d2e278

   Section 3

   this is a new section

   but provides useful reference information for other parts of the
   document

   3.3 Example source text in this document

   "Given the discussion above, representing examples of source text in
   this document can be quite difficult. Should we show source text in
   right-to-left order, or left-to-right? Should we assume that the
   editor recognizes and handles markup and escapes as separate
   entities from the content, and create source fragments that look
   like that - or should we show source as it really looks for many
   people who don't have such clever editors? And particularly, should
   we as

   <najib> other problems, some editors insert undesirable entities ot
   chars (e.g. &nbsp; when you type space.)

   yes, najib, that's mentioned in the previous sections

   "We will avoid source code examples unless they are very useful. We
   will try to describe how to apply the markup rather than show it."

   "We will typically represent examples in a left-to-right context,
   and use invisible markup to make content and markup look as you
   might expect it to be displayed by an intelligent editor, since this
   will provide maximum clarity about the point being made, even if it
   doesn't reflect how the markup will look for many people."

   <najib> Once, I've suggested to have another mode in the editor to
   present all texts from right to left (e.g. abcd efg GFE DCBA hij
   ...)

   David: [$1\47] people may copy and paste [$1\47] you are reliant on
   the browser to behave correctly

   RI: i've thought of a solution for [$1\47]

   eg.

   Example 18: The corrected result, using directional marks.

   The names of these states in Arabic are ???,? ??????? and ??????,
   respectively.

   [The names of these states in Arabic are rSm, nirHbla and tiukla
   respectively.]

   <najib> nirHabla

   al Bahrein

   [24]http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-bidi.html#ri2
   0030728.072236229

     [24] http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-bidi.html#ri20030728.072236229

   <najib> I have a comment on bestpractice 7

   <najib> Some time it is useful to use dir markup even if it is not
   necessary.

   <najib> IT facilitate the insertion of punctuations and resolves the
   () conflicts etc.

   <najib> Since you surely will have markup arround texts in different
   languages (for lang attribute, translate etc..) use dir markup also?

   <najib> that's all

   najib, since we are low on time, could you please send that in as an
   email ?

   <najib> Yes.

   najib, please read the whole section 7 first, thanks

   <najib> OK. I've already read " What you need to know about the bidi
   algorithm and inline markup".

   great

   Meeting adjourned

   rssagent, draft minutes

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: RI, move article to working draft [recorded in
   [25]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/12-i18ngeo-minutes.html#action07]
   [NEW] ACTION: Russ, day before the meeting compile a list of
   outstanding comments [recorded in
   [26]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/12-i18ngeo-minutes.html#action06]

   [PENDING] ACTION: Andrew, review
   [27]http://esw.w3.org/topic/geoEncoding and draft some more text,
   and discuss on 28th [recorded in
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/12-i18ngeo-minutes.html#action01]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Andrew, Work on comments for What should I
   consider wrt moving to UTF-8? [recorded in
   [29]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/12-i18ngeo-minutes.html#action02]
   [PENDING] ACTION: John, look at Getting Started stuff to provide
   more material. [recorded in
   [30]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/12-i18ngeo-minutes.html#action03]

     [27] http://esw.w3.org/topic/geoEncoding

   [DONE] ACTION: RI, change the IRC channel in the agenda [recorded in
   [31]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/12-i18ngeo-minutes.html#action04]
   [DONE] ACTION: RI, send out note asking for feedback on possible new
   names for 'primary language' [recorded in
   [32]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/12-i18ngeo-minutes.html#action05]

   [End of minutes]


============
Richard Ishida
Internationalization Lead
W3C (World Wide Web Consortium)

http://www.w3.org/People/Ishida/
http://www.w3.org/International/
http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ishida/
Received on Tuesday, 17 October 2006 16:26:40 UTC

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