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RE: Proposed changes to 'related links' sections of articles etc

From: Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 14:50:51 +0100
To: "'Martin Duerst'" <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp>, "'GEO'" <public-i18n-geo@w3.org>
Message-ID: <008d01c658b7$f3fef670$6501a8c0@w3cishida>

Hi Martin,

I made some further changes to the indexes last week which should go a good
way to resolving most of your issues.


> One problem is the constant need for clicking to expand or 
> collapse certain sections.

We find it much easier to navigate the current page with collapsed text, but
I've implemented a way of expanding/collapsing on a section by section
basis, which should make things better.  

> Another issue is that expand/collapse is indicated in three 
> different ways on the same page: with textual buttons at the 
> top, with icons for the categories, and in no way at all for 
> smaller headings.

Now only two ways.


> And then there is annoying duplication of information.
> A typical example is "escapes (NCRs and entities)":
> "FAQ: Using character entities and NCRs" is mentioned in 
> almost every subitem. It might be easier to mention it once 
> at the top.

That's because there's relevant information in that doc for each of the
questions where it appears.  You'll note, however, that the links go to
different document fragments, depending on the topic. I thought about adding
more detailed information to the link about where in the document you would
land, but didn't because (a) I didn't have time (b) it reduced the ease of
navigation to have so much text.

> The spacing is also a bit inconvenient (at least in my browser,
> Opera): For "escapes (NCRs and entities)", the first 
> subheading, "what are NCRs and entities", appears without any 
> interlinear space, whereas there is then a full line of space 

This appears to be a quirk of Opera. It looks as intended in IE and Firefox.
I fixed it (and finally fixed a couple of other cross-platform issues with
list styling).


Cheers,
RI



============
Richard Ishida
Internationalization Lead
W3C (World Wide Web Consortium)

http://www.w3.org/People/Ishida/
http://www.w3.org/International/
http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ishida/
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Duerst [mailto:duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp] 
> Sent: 27 March 2006 07:10
> To: Richard Ishida; GEO
> Subject: Re: Proposed changes to 'related links' sections of 
> articles etc
> 
> Hello Richard,
> 
> I think this is a very good suggestion. The only problem I 
> see is that our topics index I think mostly contains links to 
> our own material, whereas the 'related reading' links also 
> point to other stuff. But having had another look at the 
> topics index, I see that it's not a problem.
> 
> On the other hand, the topic index as it currently looks is 
> getting close to overwhelming. It contains an awful lot of 
> information, of which we (you!) should be very proud, but 
> that wealth of information makes it difficult to use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> between that subheading and the entry bullet list. My 
> suggestion would be to have a full line space before a 
> subheading, but only half a line of space after a subheading 
> (before a bullet list). Overall, I wouldn't mind reducing white space.
> I know white space is important for good presentation, but 
> this is an index, where finding the right thing has top priority.
> 
> Regards,    Martin.
> 
> At 20:56 06/03/24, Richard Ishida wrote:
>  >
>  >Folks,
>  >
>  >THE PROBLEM
>  >
>  >I've been struggling for a while to come up with a better 
> way of linking  >between articles on the site, given that we 
> are constantly adding more  >articles, or finding new places 
> to link to.  The main issue is keeping  >'related links' 
> sections up to date without spending half my time  
> >maintaining old stuff.
>  >
>  >I've also been (slightly less) worried about what is the 
> difference between  >the 'related links' section in an 
> article (top right) and the 'further  >reading' section.
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >A PROPOSAL
>  >
>  >I'd like to propose a new approach that might help.
>  >
>  >First, I think the 'further reading' sections continue unchanged.
>  >
>  >The main change is to the related links section.  I think 
> this should  >contain links to the topic index and techniques 
> index only, unless there is  >some relevant 'getting started' 
> material, in which case that too.
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >A WORKED EXAMPLE
>  >
>  >So, for example, let's take
>  >http://www.w3.org/International/articles/language-tags/
>  >
>  >Currently the related links section contains:
>  >
>  >	RFC 3066: Tags for the Identification of Languages
>  >
>  >	ISO 639: Codes for the Representation of Names of Languages
>  >
>  >	ISO 3166: Codes for Country Names
>  >
>  >	IANA language tag registry
>  >
>  >	Authoring Techniques for XHTML & HTML Internationalization:
>  >		Specifying the language of content 1.0
>  >
>  >W3C I18N resource index: Language declarations and language 
> negotiation  >  >  >  >We could change that to:
>  >
>  >	Topic index: language [links to the language section of 
> the index]
>  >
>  >	Techniques index: language  [links to the language 
> section of the index]
>  >
>  >Of course, if appropriate, we may link to more than one 
> section in each index.
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >THE BENEFITS
>  >
>  >This should make it easier to write an article, but most 
> important will  >make it simple to expose the user to much 
> more relevant and up-to-date  >material without a maintenance 
> overhead.
>  >
>  >This can also help where an article is translated into 
> several languages.
>  >We wouldn't have to go through the pain of updating several 
> pages with new  >links and translating them.
>  >
>  >It would also likely standardise things for users, and get 
> them more used  >to using the indexes.  Note this comment 
> from a feedback form related to  
> >http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-doc-charset.en.html
>  >
>  >=======================
>  >First can I say I\'ve found the information on 
> internationalization here  >invaluable. It\'s clear, concise, 
> and written in a way that\'s very  >easy-to-follow. ... So THANK YOU!
>  >
>  >I have one comment/suggestion, which is for more 
> cross-linking between  >articles. For example I\'d have liked 
> a link from this article directly to  >related topics such as 
>  >http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-escapes . 
> I\'ve found myself  >often going down a blind-alley, thinking 
> \"I know I saw a useful link about  >this somewhere\" and 
> rooting back through other pages and by browser back  >button 
> trying to find things.
>  >
>  >=======================
>  >
>  >There's also a fringe benefit in that it encroaches less 
> into the right  >hand column, making it easier to use side 
> notes near the top of the article.
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >REQUEST
>  >
>  >Please let me know what you think.  I will try it for the 
> composite  >messages and text re-use articles that we decided 
> to publish last Wednesday.
>  >
>  >Cheers,
>  >RI
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >============
>  >Richard Ishida
>  >Internationalization Lead
>  >W3C (World Wide Web Consortium)
>  >
>  >http://www.w3.org/People/Ishida/
>  >http://www.w3.org/International/
>  >http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/
>  >http://www.flickr.com/photos/ishida/ 
> 
Received on Wednesday, 5 April 2006 13:51:01 GMT

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