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Minutes 2005-03-30: GEO telecon

From: Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 13:43:10 +0100
To: "GEO" <public-i18n-geo@w3.org>
Message-Id: <20050331124310.CB0984EF11@homer.w3.org>

Minutes 2005-03-30: GEO telecon, at at 18:00 UTC/GMT, 10:00 Seattle, 13:00 Boston, 19:00 London, 20:00 Paris, 04:00 Melbourne

ATTENDEES
Deborah Cawkwell (BBC)
Andrew Cunningham (State Library of Victoria)
Richard Ishida (W3C, Chair)
Susan Miller (Boeing)
Felix Sasaki (W3C)

NEW ACTIONS
RI, GEO meeting times re-think due to daylight savings.
RI, add to review list new RI tutorials.

PENDING ACTIONS
DC, check CSS spec to double-check wording ('generic font family').
DC, Discount usability: set up WIKI page with user profiles & task scenarios drawing from discussions at FTF meeting

COMPLETED ACTIONS
RI, Talk to JY re Global Gateway - DONE
SM, Getting started - circulate draft by 30 March - DONE
RI, in WIKI instructions (top) to add specifically "DON'T WORD SMITH" at early-draft stage - DONE
DC, FAQ: what to consider when upgrading to Uncode? Add comments to WIKI - DONE
DC, question to IG list: Why utf-8 rather than utf-16? - DONE



INFO SHARE
Felix Sasaki (FS) on call today 
Felix intro:  
- Already met some members at TP in Boston.
- New team member i18n actiivty replacing some of MD's roles
- Studied Japanese & lingustics in Germany & Japan.
- Previous projects: multi-lingual web technology applications.
- In process of moving with family to Japan, in country flux.
- Will regularly participate in meetings (all i18n groups: GEO, ITS, Core) from 25 April reg in Japan.
- Main focus: i18n Core, but would also like to contribute to ITS & GEO.
- Meeting times difficult in Japan timings.
- MD leaves W3C 1 April. Credits: "impossible to replace him" "will not even try"

Firefox update
- DC, Uptake seems higher for English-speaking users & in Europe.
- Localised versions will probably help.

Unicode conference (Berlin, April) attendance
- FS
- RI



MEETINGS
GEO meeting times re-think due to daylight savings: ACTION RI
 


DISCUSSIONS

WIKI 
Agreed that we should continue to use dates.

FAQ: Using the link element
http://esw.w3.org/topic/geo0503LinkElement
- DC: Most comments about shifting focus: 1) what can I do 2) how can I do it 
- Scope & register 
- RI: 3 sections 
- Could limit FAQ scope to link element & how do I use those attributes or how is link element useful in pointing to localized pages - bigger than current, but not so big as how to do localised pages generally.
- What about here's the things I can do with link element: 3 sections
1) what - ie. what behaviour is possible with <link>
2) how - ie. how does one implement the <link> element and associated attributes
3) where - ie. what user agents support this behaviour
- RI has some screenshots for likely behaviour, which could be used in section 1 - see http://www.w3.org/International/tests/results/link-element
- Code in section 2 
- Then section with description of UAs 
- 3rd section, rather than by the way 
- FAQ question: How can I point to diff loc versions of a page using the link element 
- What is the task?
- Pointing to localized versions 
2 ways to get here 
1) people would hear about it & wonder how to do it 
2) people would want to offer localized versions then do it
- But there are other methods of localizing.
- We should say that there are more methods more clearly in background section.
- To explain it fully would require another FAQ, as this FAQ should focus on a single issue & be short & succinct.
- Ultimately, it would fit into a Techniques about navigation and localization of sites in general, which would be supported by various FAQ resources including the Global Gateway Pulldowns FAQ by John Yunker .
- FAQS are a means of saying something we know about, that we have time to write about.
Examples in AC's links to localized documents FAQ:
- 2 examples seem identical 
- difference = HTML & XHTML egs 
- AC: probably add another example 
- point to a couple of docs to get the point of pointing to localized documents rather than just one. 
- Important point: language attributes language of title 
- 'hreflang' is about target document
- Could be presented as a summary table.
- Make clear what's where in terms of linked to & link 
- Should the title be in the language of the originating page language or not? 
- If using ordinary link associated language should be in the language of the current page. 
- If the title element is going to be used in pulldown menus in the UA where you are working, it could be argued that text in title attribute should be in the language that you are reading.
- It would require some scenarios in the FAQ to think it through. 
- Useful example page: http://www.w3.org/International/articles/serving-xhtml/
- Useful pictures of behaviour: http://www.w3.org/International/tests/results/link-element
- About serving XHTML 
- Shows in pics what you would end up with from Mozilla in nav toolbar 
- Shows ultimate versions 
- Puts in language code, then the title 
- Firefox just shows title, but not 'hreflang'
- 1st pic Mozilla 
- Word 'French' in the example supplied by Mozilla not by RI user input 
- In other cases Mozilla falls down 

- QUESTION FOR AC FAQ: what does browser work out from hreflang
- Different browser behaviour needs to be addressed in the FAQ. 
- What makes this a translation rather than just an alternative format is the 'hreflang' attribute not just 'hreflang' - RI, this is an important point for this FAQ
- would also be type attribute too. 
- The alternative use of the link element is for alternate use; we're focusing on this for language-localization use, but there are other uses, eg PDF. 
Postscript example:
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Reference manual</TITLE>
<LINK media="print" title="The manual in postscript" type="application/postscript" rel="alternate" href="http://someplace.com/manual/postscript.ps">
</HEAD>

GLOBAL GATEWAYS FAQ
- RI will be co-author with JY, who has limited time, which will enable this to move forward.

DECIDE WHAT TO WORK ON IN 2 WEEKS TIME 
- Regular item on agenda
- Vacation Susan: weeks beginning April 13 & 20
Next week:
1) Getting Started
2) Unicode 
Week after: 
1) Localization via links (new initial draft chance to bring up anything missing)
2) Global Gateway
Then:
Comment on RI's tutorials 
RI ACTION to add tutorials to review list 


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Received on Thursday, 31 March 2005 12:43:11 GMT

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