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MINUTES: I18N GEO WG telcon, 2005-01-19 at 17:00 UTC/GMT, 10:00 Seattle, 13:00 Boston, 18:00 London, 19:00 Paris, 03:00 Melbourne

From: Deborah Cawkwell <deborah.cawkwell@bbc.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 17:24:44 -0000
Message-ID: <418B7E44473AC34488C9E730D09FF3CF05179007@bbcxue204.national.core.bbc.co.uk>
To: <public-i18n-geo@w3.org>

MINUTES: I18N GEO WG telcon, 2005-01-19 at 17:00 UTC/GMT, 10:00 Seattle, 13:00 Boston, 18:00 London, 19:00 Paris, 03:00 Melbourne


ATTENDEES 

Deborah Cawkwell (BBC, Scribe) 
Richard Ishida (W3C, Chair) 
Susan Miller (Boeing) 
Yves Savourel (Enlaso & Chair, Internationalization Tag Set (ITS) Working
Group) 


APOLOGIES 

Russ Rolfe (Microsoft) 
Tex Texin (XenCraft) 


AGENDA 

http://www.w3.org/International/2003/plan.html  


ADDITIONAL ITEMS 

RI introduced Yves Savourel, who will chair the new I18N working group - Internationalization Tag Set (ITS). YS company name is W3C member-organisation, Enlaso (http://www.translate.com/index.html ). 


INFO SHARE 

Deutsche Welle using Unicode. 


REVIEW OF GEO WORK ITEMS 

http://www.w3.org/International/2003/plan.html  

- DISCUSS/REVIEW/COMMENT - ACTION ALL 

RI: Global gateway (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-geo/2004Dec/0016.html ) - RI to summarize comments (MD, JY, AP) & to circulate to the group. ACTION

SM: Getting started page (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-geo/2005Jan/0001.html ): develop management & design views & circulate for review & additional material/ideas - ongoing. Outreach/promotion work will be required for getting started work once completed. ACTION

RI to liaise with Ivan Herman about getting translations of the Getting Started material (when completed in English). ACTION

Authoring Techniques for XHTML & HTML Internationalization: Specifying the language of content 1.0 (http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-lang.html ) - ongoing ACTION

Usability testing and modification (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-geo/2004Sep/0018.html ) ACTION ALL 

- IN THE PIPELINE, PRE REVIEW 

RR: FAQ What is encoding, and why should I care? - status unclear 
DC: FAQ What should I consider wrt moving to UTF-8? - in draft about to be circulated ACTION 
AC: FAQ How do I use the link element to point to different localized versions of the document? - ongoing 
AC: Test Position of meta charset wrt title element AC - ongoing 


DISCUSSION 

- PROGRESS ON RE-APPLYING FOR WG MEMBERSHIP & MAILING LISTS 

I18N Working Groups now re-chartered: 
- Tag Set (ITS) Working Group, chaired by Yves Savourel (Enlaso), chartered with new work to develop elements and attributes to support document internationalization and localization.
- Core Working Group, chaired by Addison Phillips (webMethods) 
- Guidelines, Education & Outreach (GEO) Working Group, chaired by Richard Ishida (W3C). 

Also re-chartered: the Internationalization Interest Group, chaired by Martin Dürst (W3C). 

All re-charters apply to October 2006. 

DC, NT, SM confirmed on list 
http://www.w3.org/2004/01/pp-impl/37138/status  
RI to chase GEO WG participants - particularly invited experts ACTION. 

Mailing list handling: RI has had some discusssions with the chair of the Core I18N WG & MD. 
http://www.w3.org/International/geo/#lists  

member-i18n-geo@w3.org 
Purpose: W3C I18N GEO WG member-only list dedicated to group administravia, such as scheduling face-to-face meetings, and for use if there is ever a need to discuss member-confidential topics. The intention is not to subscribe anyone other than GEO WG members (as previously) to that list. This list could also be used for anything people want to discuss but not have in public domain.

Access rights: Any W3C member can write, and read, and access the archive. 

public-i18n-geo@w3.org 
Purpose: Discussion by WG members of work on WG deliverables. Note: This list should NOT be used for any questions or discussions of a general nature
- the www-international list is for that purpose. Some 'lurkers' on this list, who are not GEO WG members but want to follow what's going on via their email client, rather than the archive - agreed that this should continue. There was a question of patent policy, but this does not really apply to GEO as this group does not development W3C recommendations. Though this would apply to each public I18N list probably. Participants could be asked to re-enlist when they would be reminded that this is a public list & of patent policy issues. All GEO WG participants have been automatically subscribed to the GEO public list. 

Access rights: Public access to archive. Write access for task force participants and W3C members only. 

www-international@w3.org 
Purpose: Internationalization Interest Group mailing list. The WG uses this list to announce the publication of deliverables, to solicit reviews of deliverables prior to release, and for discussion of general topics or solicitation of feedback related to its work. The IG list should be used for soliciting ideas, wider discussion of particular list also on that list. Also as usual review opportunities and new publication announcements to that list. 

Access rights: Public read and write access. 


- AGENDA ITEMS FOR TECH PLENARY, BOSTON, 3-4 MARCH 

DC had submitted some suggestions, which are addressed here one-by-one. Copy agenda list to public list DC ACTION. RI DONE 

Identify user scenarios for GEO site including different levels, cf Susan's getting started 
Usability. 
- Agreed as useful agenda item 
- Who is using the site? 
- What info are they interested in? 
- Scenario = task-based analysis 
- Observation of users? how? 
- Creation of survey 

Additional agenda item: user survey 
- Agreed as useful agenda item 

Review of previous charter, what went well, what could have been done better

- Agreed as useful agenda item 
- But should not spend too much time on it 
- Maybe identify sub-elements 

Set out road map of work for the new charter 
- Agreed as useful agenda item 

Re outreach, identify web developer resources across the web inc in languages other than English, include such a list of resources on the site??


- Make wider discussion about resources we'd like to see  

Review of where the industry is at regarding I18N, localisation 
- Interesting topic, but how to tackle in the meeting? 
- JY opinion would be interesting having reported on various I18N sites 
- Agreed that a report/presentation on this area would be useful  

Consider future use of language attribute, get a strong sense of where it's going, language vs/& locale, etc 
- Presentation by AP (chair, Core WG) who has done much work in this area 
- "Cracking idea" 
- In the spirit of technical plenary - interfacing with other WGs 

Clarify GEO liaison with the other I18N WGs & W3C activities 
- Good to disucss with core group how we interact with them, eg work on language attributes 
- We were inventing soluutions to problems people hadn't understood very well 
- We need to ensure we get buy in 
- AP concerned we don't collaborate as much as we could 
- Exciting & inspirational for us in GEO to hear about future developments from the other I18N WGs 
- Discuss process issues, which goes 2 ways. Core will want to produce material that geo will package & publish on their behalf 

- May also apply to ITS WG, who won't have a presence at Boston TP 2005. Possible GEO/ITS meeting at forthcoming Unicode conference in Berlin.

Discuss how we could improve the production of FAQs, etc 
- Tactics 
- Stumbling blocks, what holds us back 

Discuss I18N tick logo, cf CSS, HTML 
- motivation for I18N developers 

Discuss best practice with web where it's at now vs best practice for the future - should we clearly indicate in our material what's pragmatic now vs
- - how we'd like it to be  

Attendance admin 

Hotel booking - needs to be done by 5 feb for reduced rate. 
SM, DC, RI can make it 
TT has good reason to be there 
hopefully RR too & MD (possibily last appearance) plus his replacement. 

RI's quick review of current registrations for i18n mtgs at the Tech Plen. 

Mon (Core) 
wg: Richard 
observer request: Najib 

Tues (Core) 
wg: Richard 
observer request: Najib, Max Froumentin (w3c) 

Thurs (GEO) 
wg: Deborah, Susan, Najib, Richard 
observer request: Max Froumentin (w3c), Wendy Chisholm (w3c), Tantek Celik
(Technorati) 

Fri (GEO) 
wg: Deborah, Susan, Najib, Richard 
observer request: Marie-Claire Forgue (w3c), Susan Lesch (w3c), Tantek Celik
(Technorati) 


- JOHN'S FAQ; SUSAN'S GETTING STARTED GUIDE; LESLIE'S USABILITY POINTERS 

http://www.w3.org/International/2003/plan.html#meeting   

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-geo/2004Dec/0017.html 
Suggestions for JY 
- more specific title, eg global gateway pulldowns, as there is more to be said on global gateways 
- divide into: 1) should I use a pulldown? 2) best practices. 
RI to summarize comments (MD, JY, AP) & to circulate to the group. 


ACTIONS 

ALL - discuss/review/comment sections - http://www.w3.org/International/2003/plan.html  

RI: Global gateway (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-geo/2004Dec/0016.html ) - RI to summarize comments (MD, JY, AP) & to circulate to the group.

SM: Getting started page (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-geo/2005Jan/0001.html ): develop management & design views & circulate for review & additional material/ideas - ongoing. 

DC/RI: FAQ What should I consider wrt moving to UTF-8? - in draft about to be circulated ACTION 

RI to chase GEO WG participants - particularly invited experts. 

RI: copy agenda list to public list DONE 

RI ACTION to liaise with Ivan Herman about getting translations of the Getting Started material (when completed in English).




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Received on Monday, 24 January 2005 17:24:47 UTC

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