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Minutes 2005-08-03: GEO telecon

From: Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 10:37:03 +0100
To: "GEO" <public-i18n-geo@w3.org>
Message-Id: <20050811093703.EA1134EFE3@homer.w3.org>

Minutes 2005-08-03: GEO telecon, at at 17:00 UTC/GMT, 10:00 Seattle, 13:00 Boston, 18:00 London, 19:00 Paris, 03:00 Melbourne


ATTENDEES

Deborah Cawkwell (BBC)
Andrew Cunningham (State Library of Victoria)
Richard Ishida (W3C, Chair)
Russ Rolfe (Microsoft)


APOLOGIES


ADDITIONAL ITEMS

FAQ: Styling using the lang attribute: What is the most appropriate way to associate CSS styles with text in a particular language in a multilingual XHTML/HTML document?
http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-css-lang


ACTIONS

ACTION RI - set up rights for GEO members on WIKI
ACTION DC to check tests (FAQ: Styling using the lang attribute) on base browsers as identified in previous documents
ACTION RI publish FAQ (FAQ: Styling using the lang attribute) as replacement for current version.
DC xml:lang FAQ comments (xml:lang in XML document schemas) to chair
ACTION RI/AP liaison, then send for wide review (xml:lang in XML document schemas) 
ACTION RI: check with Addison whether zh-HK is best tag for Cantonese given multiple dialecst in HongKong (xml:lang in XML document schemas) 
ACTION RR: (FAQ: changing page encoding) email re Notepad (?)
ACTION RI: (FAQ: changing page encoding) send out for wide review
ACTION RI: (FAQ: Using character entities and NCRs) to add in brief terms what might go wrong re conversion with XML tools
ACTION RI break up 'When to use escapes' section - bit off-putting (FAQ: Using character entities and NCRs) 
ACTION RI: Add example to illustrate "You do not need to use leading zeros in escapes" (FAQ: Using character entities and NCRs) 
ACTION RI: formatting/indentation (FAQ: Using character entities and NCRs) 
ACTION RI: send for wide review (What should I consider wrt moving to UTF-8?)


INFO SHARE

AC: report for local state government (Victoria) on models for new portal for information for all ethnic communities. To be used by various state government depts & agencies. Will be working on that over next 12 months

RR: New set of Windows XP tutorials in English & other languages (20). RR has done voice-over (for English)
http://catalog.microsoft.com/genuine/offers/default.aspx?displaylang=en#a74ceb13-d7f2-460d-8157-43327619d71c

RI: GEO WIKI. Access to be restricted to meeting members due to spamming problem. ACTION RI - set up rights for GEO members on WIKI

MH to focus currently on developing outreach, focussing on listening to what people are looking, getting feedback. 'Getting Started' will be developed subsequently. Will also feedback on resource output.


MEETINGS


REVIEW OF GEO WORK ITEMS

See GEO plan/work items pipeline
http://www.w3.org/International/2003/plan.html


DISCUSSIONS

FAQ: Styling using the lang attribute
http://www.w3.org/International/questions/temp
Following comments on www-international@w3.org mailing list (Frank Yung-Fong Tang) RI has made changes
Not clear when lang attribute will be supported by IE.
To be added - example how it would look with no support.
Some formatting (indentation) to be corrected
Relevant test & results pages re-written
ACTION DC to check tests on base browsers as identified in previous documents
ACTION RI publish as replacement for current version.

FAQ xml:lang in XML document schemas
http://esw.w3.org/topic/geoFAQxmllang
AP re-wrote following comments
DC comments email to chair
Agreed that this FAQ addresses different audience to previous, ie schema developers, rather than more traditional developers
ACTION RI: check with Addison whether zh-HK is best tag for Cantonese given multiple dialecst in HongKong
ACTION RI/AP liaison, then send for wide review

Audience discussion
Should always think of audience for each FAQ
Should we make 'audience' explicit in our text?
How to place it without pushing main content too far down the page, could it be positioned in the RH navigation, rather than in the main body?
Suggestion to identify audience by keywords, rather than a sentence. Problem is that an 'experienced developer' may not know about i18n, just as an experienced schema developer may not know about marking up language.
Not so much 'audience' attributes but what you're looking for, cf, search query


FAQ Changing page encoding
http://esw.w3.org/topic/geoChangingEncoding
Observation: different sort of FAQ. Collection of pointers, rather than information within FAQ
'Getting Started' type of article, step-by-step
AC: consider including a further step: coverting NCRs back to characters after 'save as utf-8' or consider not outputting as NCRs in the first place, but if the document should contain NCRs or entities, may have to do as separate step
Add links section at bottom of FAQ as usual
Under 'step 1', "save as utf-8" expand text re BOM - s/, or byte-order mark (BOM)./also known as the byte-order mark (BOM)./
Notepad can be confusing: save as Unicode or utf-8 - clarify that the latter is probably required, the former saves as utf-16 
s/Notepad on Win2k offers only four choices/Notepad on Win2k offers four choices/
ACTION RR: email re Notepad (?) 
ACTION RI send out for wide review


FAQ: Using character entities and NCRs
http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-escapes.html
Some changes made following wide review
(?) RR few mentions re utf-8 - when to use escapes - link for starter utf-8
"If you use HTML-defined character entities (such as &aacute;) to represent characters in XHTML, you should take care any time your content is processed using XML tools, or converted to XML." - can we say more? eg what might go wrong.
ACTION RI: to add in brief terms
(Another FAQ lurking, RI or AP or FS might write: how/where do I define character entiies in XML? - too low level for this FAQ)
ACTION RI break up 'When to use escapes' section - bit off-putting.
"You may also want to represent the double-quote (") as &quot; and the single quote (') as &apos; - particularly in attribute text when you need to use the same type of quotes as you used to surround the attribute value." And also when you're processing the HTML with other languages, eg Apache XSSI (vars), which requires single or double quotes as delimiters & you probably want to use both in your HTML text.
RI to consider
ACTION RI: Add example to illustrate "You do not need to use leading zeros in escapes"
ACTION RI: formatting/indentation

What should I consider wrt moving to UTF-8?
ACTION RI: send for wide review


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Received on Thursday, 11 August 2005 09:37:11 UTC

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