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RE: i18n, l10n, g11n faq: Please review

From: Addison Phillips [wM] <aphillips@webmethods.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:43:57 -0700
To: "Richard Ishida" <ishida@w3.org>, "'GEO'" <public-i18n-geo@w3.org>
Message-ID: <PNEHIBAMBMLHDMJDDFLHOECJIKAA.aphillips@webmethods.com>

Hi Richard,

That's fine. I normally wouldn't comment, but I think that these particular ones are important to get right (and I realize how hard it is to write a good definition of any of these that fits on a page and is also inclusive....)

Re-reading my comments I note that I sound more critical than I actually feel. These are well constructed definitions. I just think that there are some rough edges as yet. 

Incidentally, there is a new search service promoted by Amazon (called a9.com). "Googling" my name there finds this definition of i18n on the first page of entries:

http://dret.net/glossary/i18n

Addison

Addison P. Phillips
Director, Globalization Architecture
webMethods | Delivering Global Business Visibility
http://www.webMethods.com
Chair, W3C Internationalization (I18N) Working Group
Chair, W3C-I18N-WG, Web Services Task Force
http://www.w3.org/International

Internationalization is an architecture. 
It is not a feature.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Ishida [mailto:ishida@w3.org]
> Sent: 2004年10月5日 4:48
> To: aphillips@webmethods.com; 'GEO'
> Subject: RE: i18n, l10n, g11n faq: Please review
> 
> 
> Addison,
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to make these comments.  I propose 
> that we address these at the same time as any others arising from 
> the wide review I have just initiated.
> 
> Cheers,
> RI
> 
> 
> ============
> Richard Ishida
> W3C
> 
> contact info:
> http://www.w3.org/People/Ishida/ 
> 
> W3C Internationalization:
> http://www.w3.org/International/ 
> 
> Publication blog:
> http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/
>  
>  
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Addison Phillips [wM] [mailto:aphillips@webmethods.com] 
> > Sent: 01 October 2004 18:05
> > To: Richard Ishida; GEO
> > Subject: RE: i18n, l10n, g11n faq: Please review
> > 
> > All:
> > 
> > Actually, you might want to look at:
> > 
> > http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/NOTE-ws-i18n-scenarios-20040730/#IDARXSO
> > 
> > I like those definitions more than the ones here, I think. 
> > That section doesn't focus exclusively on the three 
> > numerically infixed beasties, but provides a nice 
> > interlocking set of definitions (and has been quoted 
> > elsewhere, I note).
> > 
> > My comments on the document as written follow:
> > 
> > 1. I18N should come before L10N. It is a more natural 
> > progression in my opinion to move from enabling software, 
> > content, or products to creating specific versions targetted 
> > to a specific market.
> > 
> > 2. The definition of localization refers to "the adaptation 
> > of a product". I would include content and software as in my 
> > point #1 to make clear that localization may apply to more 
> > than just the software code (the "payload" of a product).
> > 
> > 3. The same point applies to " Localization may even 
> > necessitate a comprehensive rethinking of a program" I would 
> > say something like:
> > 
> >   "Localization may even necessitate a comprehensive 
> > rethinking of logic, visual design, or presentation"
> > 
> > 4. I don't like the definition of i18n because it sounds 
> > remedial (the phrasing to me seems to denote a project rather 
> > than an approach). I prefer the one from WSUS:
> > 
> >   [Definition: Internationalization]The process of designing, 
> > creating, and maintaining software that can serve the needs 
> > of users with differing language, cultural, or geographic 
> > requirements and expectations.
> > 
> > 5. " Excluding localizable elements from source code." is not 
> > clear. How about:
> > 
> >    "Externalizing localizable elements. In addition to 
> > strings, localizable elements include sizes, positions, 
> > colors, images, and other settings that may need to be 
> > altered when tailoring the product for a specific local 
> > market (during the localization process). Externalization 
> > removes these items to separate files ("resources") that can 
> > be loaded or selected based on the user's international 
> > preferences at runtime."
> > 
> > 6. Spell out "for example". Don't use e.g.
> > 
> > 7. Globalization is sometimes written as g11n (ick). 
> > Personally, I would move the infix defintions away from the 
> > main definitions. I personally dislike them (Norbert 
> > Lindenberg of Sun often refers to them as I19g, using the 
> > German word...). 
> > 
> > 8. I dislike the globalization definition. While the first 
> > paragraph is *a* correct definition of globalization, it 
> > doesn't refer to the globalization that we are talking about 
> > in the GILT industry. Globalization in that definition is not 
> > something protested by quasi-anarchists wherever the G8 is 
> > meeting. The definition we want should be *first*, not second. 
> > 
> > I don't particularly like the wording of the GILT definition 
> > either. In particular, globalization is *not* a process. It 
> > is an organizational approach to integrating 
> > internationalization with product/content development so that 
> > the product can be tailored for global or multi-lingual 
> > markets easily. It is, in the words of Glen Perkins, "... a 
> > fundamental architectural approach". 
> > 
> > 9. In the globalization definition we switch from "products" 
> > to "Web sites" for no apparent reason.
> > 
> > Addison
> > 
> > Addison P. Phillips
> > Director, Globalization Architecture
> > webMethods | Delivering Global Business Visibility 
> > http://www.webMethods.com Chair, W3C Internationalization 
> > (I18N) Working Group Chair, W3C-I18N-WG, Web Services Task 
> > Force http://www.w3.org/International
> > 
> > Internationalization is an architecture. 
> > It is not a feature.
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: public-i18n-geo-request@w3.org 
> > [mailto:public-i18n-geo-request@w3.
> > > org]On Behalf Of Richard Ishida
> > > Sent: 2004?10?1? 5:58
> > > To: GEO
> > > Subject: i18n, l10n, g11n faq: Please review
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Please review the latest version of Susan's FAQ and make any final 
> > > comments before it goes out for wide review.  This version 
> > > incorporates changes agreed based on comments made at two 
> > telecons and 
> > > email feedback received so far.
> > > 
> > > http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-i18n
> > > 
> > > RI
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ============
> > > Richard Ishida
> > > W3C
> > > 
> > > contact info:
> > > http://www.w3.org/People/Ishida/
> > > 
> > > W3C Internationalization:
> > > http://www.w3.org/International/
> > > 
> > > Publication blog:
> > > http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/
> > >  
> > > 
> > 
> 
Received on Tuesday, 5 October 2004 16:40:53 GMT

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