- From: Russ Rolfe <rrolfe@windows.microsoft.com>
- Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:10:00 -0700
- To: <ishida@w3.org>, "GEO" <public-i18n-geo@w3.org>
Richard, Thanks for getting this out. Glad to know that my parting was a "major" event B^) Russ -----Original Message----- From: public-i18n-geo-request@w3.org [mailto:public-i18n-geo-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Richard Ishida Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 6:25 AM To: 'GEO' Subject: Minutes from FTF, Atlanta These are the raw notes I took in instant messenger during the meeting (used for video and audio link with Andrew). For most of the meeting the only participants on this IM session were myself and Andrew Cunningham. I have pruned out side conversations (eg. about audio or webcam problems). Attendees: Richard Ishida (chair) Martin Dürst Russ Rolfe Tex Texin Lloyd Honomichl Addison Philipps (came part way through) richardishida: plan: look through document for gaping holes richardishida: check that we don't have anything outright wrong richardishida: check with andrew what he wants to do early on richardishida: in terms of timing for publication this will become clear as we progress today richardishida: md: we should aim to publish asap after this meeting richardishida: so we'll pull up the doc and start working through it andj_c: i though about adding 6 just to show something of the future richardishida: we'll look at 2-5 now, and then evaluate whether we have time to do forms later richardishida: we also have some stuff in 13, so we should check whether that's ok to leave there richardishida: should we include xhtml 1.1? if we include xhtml served as xml richardishida: md: lets say both because there's no real difference richardishida: but does include ruby richardishida: md: need intro to tell people how to use the doc and mention this stuff richardishida: need to add info about base browsers etc too richardishida: md: could mask that out with style sheets richardishida: tex, need to make clear that we've tested and what we haven't andj_c: application/xhtml+xml tends to be unreliable, focus on text/html and add notes latter on application/xhtml+xml after testing andj_c: what little testing i've done on application/xhtml+xml sort of works in mozilla, although i still have trouble with style. IE no luck todate andj_c: just as long as the next ie has an uupdated usp10.dll andj_c: :) richardishida: some of the xhtml stuff served as xml may be theoretical - we should make that clear richardishida: we need to add to the intro information about server side setup issues andj_c: how to server docs could initially be an FAQ until we have built up sufficient examples and notes richardishida: in particular content type richardishida: md: explain in the intro the structure and organisation of the doc, including why material is repeated richardishida: we're reading beginning of 2.1 richardishida: agreed, tone down the visibilty of editorial comments and add something ed: before but keep them in richardishida: 2.1 tech4 good header for previous points richardishida: change content to editorial comment richardishida: remove link one under impln guidelines richardishida: make tbd ed note andj_c: could add a link to the online ed of unicode4 andj_c: if memeory serves me, if an xhtml doc is served as text/html and does not have an xml declaration, then the doc should be utf-8 or utf-16 richardishida: change reference to Unicode to v 4.0 andj_c: richard what was the url for the web standrads group doc on this stuff? richardishida: http://www.webstandards.org/learn/askw3c/sep2003.html andj_c: have a look at http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#guidelines andj_c: section C.1 andj_c: C.1. Processing Instructions and the XML Declaration Be aware that processing instructions are rendered on some user agents. Also, some user agents interpret the XML declaration to mean that the document is unrecognized XML rather than HTML, and therefore may not render the document as expected. For compatibility with these types of legacy browsers, you may want to avoid using processing instructions and XML declarations. Remember, however, that when the XML declaration is not included in a document, the document can only use the default character encodings UTF-8 or UTF-16. andj_c: cascade the options maybe: richardishida: check the webstandards page to see if a pointer to it will serve our purposes andj_c: someone drive it and groups discussion via email andj_c: what can i say, its after midnight :p richardishida: action: go through 2.2 with a fine tooth comb to check implications of mime type and declarations andj_c: http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-media-types/ richardishida: action: martin to do this in damage limitation mode - with an eye to faq richardishida: action: ri, do spellcheck Addison arrives richardishida: nuke ed about serving as html vs xhtml richardishida: change content type charset declaration to http charset declaration richardishida: remove "does the title element have to come before the meta element..." it doesn't richardishida: replace tbd tbd with link to hints and tips page richardishida: 2.3 tech2, delete 'when there is one' richardishida: also "when using escapes..." richardishida: lowercase the SHOULDs richardishida: this is highly discouraged -> use of private use characters is highly... andj_c: no sound richardishida: add editorial note to say: use is ok for invisible characters or others - "explain what the exceptions might be" richardishida: nuke don't use entities in xhmtl? richardishida: replace "something about inline characters" with ed note richardishida: kill the ednote about title and meta position richardishida: add to introduction that we have empty sections LUNCH BREAK richardishida: section 3 richardishida: very clearly state that is not in the standard richardishida: don't use font to represent other scripts - cheating on charset andj_c: don't use fonts esp since older versions of fonts may not suppport target language richardishida: md: add some text to say that these are not yet baked andj_c: each font has different versions, the set of characters may change between versions richardishida: 3.1 'on the localized web page' -> 'on the client' richardishida: make this a separate point "rely on text just fitting in a space" richardishida: 'on the localized page' -> also 'don't assume that the font you've chosen will contain the characters needed for localized pages" richardishida: make last tech into an ednote richardishida: don't assume that all versions of a font cover the same characters richardishida: andrew, happy with that? andj_c: yep richardishida: section 4.1 richardishida: split lang and xml:lang for html and xhtml richardishida: 'declaring the language of a whole document" -> 'declaring the overall language for a doc" and explain that this is a default richardishida: declaring -> specifying richardishida: section 4.2: richardishida: title: specifying (a different) language for part of a document richardishida: specify lang = html, xml:lang = xhtml richardishida: section 4.3: demote technique to ednote richardishida: add precedence rules richardishida: section 4.4: 'wherever possible' only relates to 639 only richardishida: also add to 'interoperability' that the standard says this too! richardishida: 5.1 'use css instead' -> 'do it from a LINKED stylesheet' richardishida: make it clearer that this is not rtl and ltr richardishida: 'you can have a different style sheet for a language' richardishida: editorial comment: add mention that before and after applies to css3 richardishida: sec5.2 make references to Opera consistent richardishida: incorrect -> bad example richardishida: update the example richardishida: incorrect -> bad practise richardishida: remove sentence "any user agent that supports Unicode properly..." richardishida: do something with the the arabic fonts richardishida: section 5.3: richardishida: reword 'a whole page' richardishida: tweak the 'does not look right' richardishida: fix text about visual orderingin arabic richardishida: 5.5 richardishida: RLM and LRM -> expand richardishida: remove ednote: I think XML ought to have meaningful.... andj_c: maybe a random link into parts of the document, rather than a contents page richardishida: red text: sometimes you can help the problem by adding new lines in the code - though be careful about spaces Russ leaves richardishida: ** add a technique to say that you should test that the text looks right in different widths - to ensure that ordering of directional runs is ok richardishida: ** might not be just window resize - could be affected by font size changes richardishida: ** change order of stuff about control codes for martin richardishida: put the bidi space link in richardishida: 5.6: richardishida: add explanation richardishida: add that this is for character names richardishida: section 13.1 richardishida: change four-digit to full, and remove always richardishida: replace 'local calendars' by 'multiple calendars' twice richardishida: change time and date to date and time richardishida: change 'these' to by more explicity richardishida: iso 8061 to iso 8601 richardishida: ** eventually refer to XML Schema richardishida: redo description for sources richardishida: ** add time zones richardishida: section 14.1 richardishida: add pointer to faq - 'see this' ============ Richard Ishida W3C contact info: http://www.w3.org/People/Ishida/ http://www.w3.org/International/ http://www.w3.org/International/geo/ See the W3C Internationalization FAQ page http://www.w3.org/International/questions.html
Received on Wednesday, 10 September 2003 13:12:34 UTC