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Re: Bidi space Q&A, [was RE: Agenda I18N Core TF telcon, 2003-06-10 at 17:00 UTC, 10am PST, 1pm EST, 18:00UK]

From: Tex Texin <tex@i18nguy.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 04:14:07 -0400
Message-ID: <3EF2C24F.190AF85B@I18nGuy.com>
To: Martin Duerst <duerst@w3.org>
CC: ishida@w3.org, ian@hixie.ch, public-i18n-geo@w3.org

I agree with Martin's comments.
Also:
1) In the background, is the font for the black text smaller or different? It
appears smaller to me and therefore harder to see the spaces. oh, ok I just
realized it is an image (I changed text size and it didn't change.) Please
make the image larger. (Maybe svg would make size user selectable?)

2) Along the lines Martin suggested, I would change:
Would produce a result that looks as follows, where the arrow indicates the
location of the missing space:

to:
Produces the following result. The arrow indicates the location of the missing
space.

3) In the technical detail section, the blue space migrates from behind to the
front of the "B". I found myself wondering if the B represented a RTL or LTR
character to convince myself that the space would shift as shown.
I think it makes a difference but I havent tried it yet.

4) The next question I think, is if you have unicode plain-text with bidi
controls, and you want to convert to html, what does this information imply
about the algorithm to do that? It seems to indicate where you might remove
controls and insert markup, and it might not be one for one, to accomodate the
space collapse issue.

tex



Martin Duerst wrote:
> 
> At 13:36 03/06/18 +0100, Richard Ishida wrote:
> 
> >Many thanks for this, Ian.  I have used your information to produce a
> >new draft of my Q&A.
> >
> >  http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-bidi-space.html
> 
> Here are some comments. I have reduced the cross-posting.
> 
> I think this is a very good topic for Q&A, a small issue with
> an easy answer, supported by the specs.
> 
> In the question "Why does my browser" is a good way to connect
> to the reader, but this Q&A is for Web authors, and we should
> get them away from the impression that their browser is what
> counts. So "Why do browsers" is much better. If we want to
> stay personal, we can add "in my Web pages" at the end.
> 
> Background: reduce the 'may' and 'would', i.e.
>     "text may appear to collapse" -> "text collapses"
>     "Would produce a result that looks as follows" ->
>     "produces the following result"
> 
> Alignment of images: I would align them to the left. Especially on
>     a wide page, it is more difficult for the readers to follow
>     the flow of the argument.
> 
> Answer: "If the previous section describes the look of your code,":
>     "code" -> "markup"
> 
>     Better align the text before and after the example. Currently, we
>     have 'remove space or dir' before the example, and then
>     'remove dir or <span>' afterwards. This overlap is confusing.
> 
>     I would also add (here or at some other place) that the answer
>     is a specific instance of two more general principles:
>     1) Keep your markup tight around the text you mark up.
>     2) Keep your markup and the text you mark up balanced.
>        (i.e. don't use (<span>W3C)</span> or so)
>     These principles are helpful in general, but of particular
>     importance for bidi markup.
> 
> How does it look for me?: Again, this is the wrong viewpoint to
>     ask for authors. And because we know now what the spec
>     requests, we can probably reduce the list of examples.
>     Also, again, 'code' -> 'markup'
> 
> Technical detail:
> 
>     "Only read this section if you want the gory details about why
>      this happens.": The title should be enough to help the
>     readers decide whether they want to read this part.
> 
>     "The specifications listed in the sources section below":
>     Use the actual names, and provide links.
> 
> Regards,    Martin.

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Tex Texin   cell: +1 781 789 1898   mailto:Tex@XenCraft.com
Xen Master                          http://www.i18nGuy.com
                         
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Received on Friday, 20 June 2003 04:14:18 GMT

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