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Re: [css3-lists] Remaining feedback on the module

From: Tab Atkins Jr. <jackalmage@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 11:37:48 -0700
Message-ID: <BANLkTinnQdbsXMw7PtcOAexHEPpHFxFTkA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Koji Ishii <kojiishi@gluesoft.co.jp>
Cc: www-style list <www-style@w3.org>, WWW International <www-international@w3.org>, "public-i18n-core@w3.org" <public-i18n-core@w3.org>
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 9:26 PM, Koji Ishii <kojiishi@gluesoft.co.jp> wrote:
> Thank you for updating the ED, Tab. Here're some feedbacks from me.
>
> ** 4.3.4. The Japanese "spoken-out" counter styles
> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-lists/#japanese-counter-styles
>
> * Digit 0 is U+3007, not U+96F6 for both "japanese-informal" and "japanese-financial".

I've had specific feedback from another Japanese speaker (from my
team) that U+96F6 is more appropriate for both of those.  I'll just
mark it as an issue for now.


> ** 13. Appendix A: Required Predefined Counter Styles
> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-lists/#ua-stylesheet
>
> * The "suffix" property for "cjk-decimal" and "fullwidth-decimal" is U+3001. Japanese uses U+3001 or U+FF0E, and Chinese uses U+3001, U+FF0C, or U+FF0E (if I understand correctly), so the choices are U+3001 or U+FF0E. I would prefer U+3001. I don't know which Chinese people prefers though.

I'll change it to U+3001 for now.


> * Are we dropping "cjk-ideographic" which was in CSS 2.0? It would be ideal if the value can map to "*-informal" depending on language tag.

Yes; the only purpose of that type seemed to be to host the cjk
algorithm.  Since the three languages all actually have slightly
*different* algorithms, it didn't make sense to keep it.


> * I can't find CJK predefined counter styles in this section. Is this because you haven't determined how to define the "type" property for these styles? I think we have to add values like "chinese" or "japenese" here because their algorithms are different. I understand some people do not like scripts/language names appearing as value names, but I don't know what else options we have. Other possibilities I can think of are:
> - "cjk-japanese", "cjk-simp-chinese", etc.: no differences?
> - make the value name descriptive for each algorithm, like "cjk-remove-all-zero-and...": I think this is preferred method in CSS, but I don't know if we can come up with good names in this way.

I'm not sure what you mean.  The "spoken-out" styles are explicitly
defined in sections 4.3.3, 4.3.4, and 4.3.5.  Then there are more
styles defined in Appendix A, for the ones that can be expressed in
terms of the common algorithms.

If I'm missing any that you consider important, just let me know and
I'll be glad to add them.

Regarding naming, I'm open to better names.  The current names are
mostly just what was already in the spec; I've changed a few, but I'm
definitely not attached to any of the names.


>> 8. Should I allow custom negative signs to be defined?  Right now all
>> the numeric styles just use hyphen-minus.  Do any languages require a
>> different negative sign?
>
> Yes, please. Fullwidth counter styles want to use U+FF0D FULLWIDTH HYPHEN-MINUS instead. This is not only for visual consistency but also helps them look better in vertical text flow.

Cool, the fullwidth styles were the ones I was most concerned about.
I'll add that ability, then.


> I'd also like to use a string of four characters ("マイナス", U+30DE, U+30A4, U+30CA, U+30B9, meaning "minus" in Japanese) for Japanese counter styles and relax the restriction "not defined for negative numbers". It's true that there's no formal way to describe negative numbers in ideographic number styles, but displaying positive numbers in ideographic and negative numbers in Arabic digits doesn't look good. Some people said we could use "▲" U+25B2, but I think it's too specific to financial world.

Sure, I can add this in.

~TJ
Received on Wednesday, 20 April 2011 18:42:50 GMT

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