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Re: [widgets] i18n <span> element VS unicode RLM/LRM

From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 08:49:02 +0900
Message-ID: <48ED46EE.70206@w3.org>
To: Marcos Caceres <marcosscaceres@gmail.com>
CC: "public-i18n-core@w3.org" <public-i18n-core@w3.org>, Web Applications Working Group WG <public-webapps@w3.org>

Hi Marcos,

thank you very much for your response. I am happy with your resolution. 
One comment below

Marcos Caceres さんは書きました:
> Hi Felix (and i18n Core),
> During our last WAF teleconf, WebApps decided to adopt your
> suggestions (below). I've been attempting to integrate your
> suggestions into the Widget Packaging spec [1]. Below I summarize what
> draft text I have added thus far. I would really appreciate any
> feedback if you think I've gone about specifying what you intended
> correctly.
>
> On Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 1:32 AM, Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org> wrote:
>   
>> Marcos Caceres wrote:
>>     
>>> Hi, i18n-WG.
>>> In recent feedback we received from Addison Phillips regarding the
>>> Widgets 1.0: Packaging specification, he suggested that WebApps should
>>> add a <span>-like element to our Widget Configuration Document format
>>> (so to allow bidi text to be declared).
>>>
>>>       
>> I think such an element would only be necessary within these elements: name,
>> description, author, license. It seems that only these elements may contain
>> human readable text.
>>
>>     
> Agreed. More on this below.
>
> <snip>
>   
>> I personally would recommend you to use the <its:span> element in the ITS
>> namespace. The element is defined at
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/REC-its-20070403/#span
>> This element gives you the "dir" attribute and various other attributes
>> which are useful for esp. Widgets localization. See
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/REC-its-20070403/#att.local.no-ns.attributes
>> See also the related "Best Practice" to define such an element for XML
>> vocabularies at
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-xml-i18n-bp-20080213/#DevSpan
>> To keep simplicity for Widgets 1.0, you could say in your conformance
>> description that a Widgets processor has various options to deal with the
>> <its:span> element (or more in general: the ITS namespace) and its
>> attributes: ignore them or process them.
>>     
>
> Ok, in the Widget User Agent conformance section I've added the
> following text for your consideration:
>
> "A widget user agent MAY support the Internationalized Tag Set's
> <its:span> element and the its:dir attribute [ITS]. Support of any
> other ITS elements and attributes is NOT REQUIRED. Although this
> specification specifies the elements of the configuration document in
> which <its:span> and its:dir can be used (below), it does not define
> how they are to be interpreted and processed by a widget user agent.
> If a widget user agent implements <its:span> and its:dir, then they
> MUST do so in conformance to the processing rules defined by the ITS
> specification."
>
> Then I've added the following subsection to the Configuration Document
> section...
>
> == Indicating text directionality and <its:span> ==
> Although it is optional for a widget user agent to implement [ITS],
> authors are may use the <its:span> element to indicate the
> directionality of arbitrary content. Directionality is indicated by
> using the its:dir attribute in conjunction with the <its:span>
> element. The its:dir accepts one of the following values, as defined
> in [ITS]:
>
> dir="ltr"  - left to right text
> dir="rtl"  - right to left text
> dir="lro" - left-to-right override
> dir="rlo" - right-to-left override
>
> For example,
>
> <widget
>    xmlns="http://www.w3.org/ns/widgets"
>    xmlns:its="http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its">
>   <name>Yay for the  "<its:span dir="rtl">متعة الأسماك!</its:span>"
> Widget</name>
> </widget>
>
> The <its:span> element can be only be used as a child of the following
> elements of the configuration document:
>   * <name>
>   * <description>
>   * <author>
>   * <license>
>
>   
>> If you do not want to add markup from a specific namespace, you could or
>> should IMO add extensibility points for people who need such markup. That
>> is, change in the schema something like
>>
>> description = element description {
>>  xmllang.att?,
>>  text
>> }
>>
>> to
>>
>> description = element description {
>>  xmllang.att?,
>>  any
>> }
>>
>> and define "any" and a pattern "anyElement" as
>>
>> any= (attribute * { text }
>>    | text
>>    | anyElement)*
>>
>> anyElement =  element * { any }
>>     

after looking at this again I am thinking you could also say:

any= (attribute * - w:* { text }
   | text
   | anyElement)*

anyElement =  element * - w:* { any }


"-w:*" (assuming that the "w" prefix is bound to the widgets namespace) 
means that you exclude native widgets markup from the "any" defintions. 
That is just a suggestion, no need to handle this as a formal comments.

Regards, Felix.

>> Again the conformance for such markup can say: ignore it ("it" meaning:
>> markup from other namespaces) or process it. I think you are basically
>> saying that already at http://www.w3.org/TR/widgets/#extensions
>>     
>
> Agreed. Our schema will be updated to include the above.
>
> Thank you again for your help! And looking forward to hearing any
> feedback you might have,
> Marcos
>   
Received on Wednesday, 8 October 2008 23:49:44 GMT

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