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[I18N Core] Teleconference Minutes 2006-09-19

From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 00:08:36 +0900
Message-ID: <451007F4.6090002@w3.org>
To: "public-i18n-core@w3.org" <public-i18n-core@w3.org>

... are at http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html and below
as text.


Felix


   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                        i18n core working group

19 Sep 2006

   [2]Agenda

      [2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2006Sep/0001.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Felix, Francois, Richard

   Regrets
          Mary
   Chair
          Francois

   Scribe
          Felix

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]action items
         2. [6]ITS review - what is left? E.g. discussion on
            Bidi-override scope in CSS2 and CSS 2.1
         3. [7]discussion on Bidi-override scope in CSS2 and CSS 2.1
         4. [8]XML Schema issue
         5. [9]LC reviews
     * [10]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________



   <scribe> scribe: Felix

   <scribe> scribeNick: fsasaki

action items

   <scribe> ACTION: Everybody to look at input mode discussion
   (DROPPED) [recorded in
   [11]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action01]

   <scribe> ACTION: all to look at charmod resid test suite and gather
   feedback (PENDING) [recorded in
   [12]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action02]

   Felix: Chris Lilley asked for IRI tests for SVG tiny 1.2 , I thought
   of creating a mini-test suite

   Francois: we have no bandwith for a full test suite. Is the scope of
   the SVG tiny tests clear?

   Felix: no, so far only PC between Chris and me

   <fyergeau> [13]http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/CR-SVGMobile12-20060810/

     [13] http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/CR-SVGMobile12-20060810/

   <scribe> ACTION: Felix to write a mail about possibility for SVG
   tiny specific IRI tests to martin and the i18n core list [recorded
   in [14]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action03]

   <scribe> ACTION: Francois to build a current issues list on charmod
   norm (PENDING) [recorded in
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action04]

   <scribe> ACTION: Mary will make the updates discussed in Mandelieu
   on ws-i18n (PENDING) [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action05]

   <scribe> ACTION: Francois to give input to wiki for the LTLI summary
   [recorded in
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action06]

   Wiki

   prepared by Richard, see

   [18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2006Jul/002
   6.html

     [18]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2006Jul/0026.html

   <scribe> ACTION: Richard to review XHTML Basic
   1.1&#27;$B!!&#27;(Band XHTML&#27;$B!!&#27;(BModularization 1.1
   (DROPPED) [recorded in
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action07]

ITS review - what is left? E.g. discussion on Bidi-override scope in
CSS2 and CSS 2.1

   Richard: I think we are done with the ITS review, I need to double
   check

discussion on Bidi-override scope in CSS2 and CSS 2.1

   Richard: I wrote a long mail on this yesterday, with about 7
   questions
   ... some for XHTML people, some for CSS people
   ... we have to wait for some response from CSS
   ... basic idea: Martin and I believe that if you declare override on
   the block-element, everything in that element should be overriden
   ... currently, CSS 2.1 don't say that, and the current
   implementations in browsers follow CSS 2.1

   Francois: e.g. if you have a dir attribute at a <div> element,
   everything should be overriden?

   Richard: currently there is no override for CSS 2: if there is a <p>
   in the <div>, nothing will happen
   ... in CSS 2.1, there will be an override for the <p> , but not for
   e.g. a <div> within the <div>
   ... e.g. text in a <p> in a <div> within a <div> will not be
   reordered

   Francois: sounds strange. Touches many working groups
   ... very specialized subject for some people. We should try to
   engage them, does Najib know about this?

   Richard: no
   ... Paul Nelson got involved a bit
   ... what do you think what should happen?

   Francois: I think everything in a <div> should be overriden
   ... there could be reasons not to override everything

   Felix: I would follow Richard's and Martin's proposal

   Richard: having e.g. dir="rtl" would cancel the override
   ... for an embedded element

   Francois: having override on a block element is not an interesting
   requirement
   ... it is only for small bits of text

   Richard: I recently edited a boiler template text for Hebrew /
   Arabic
   ... in that case, I really wanted to have the override

   (discussion on use-cases for block-level override)

   (Richard says that dealing with visualy ordered text is a use case)

   Richard: the behavior of CSS 2.1 described at [Question 3 (CSS)]
   [20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2006JulSep/
   0157.html is what current browsers do

     [20]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2006JulSep/0157.html

   Francois: does this relate to bidi-override inheritance?

   Richard: we have to consider in ITS what that means
   ... we say in ITS that RLO is inherited, but say that the behavior
   depends on the implementation
   ... so we separated inheritance from behavior

   Felix: in ITS, there is nothing about behavior, all is about
   inheritance of information - for all data categories

   Francois: we should get more people in this discussion
   ... Richard showed in his mail that specs and behaviors contradict
   ... I think there is a bidi-list at Unicode, we should invite people
   from that list

   Richard: we could also blog on it, or discuss it on
   www-international

   Francois: we might loose the style people
   ... so we move out of of i18n-core, and go to www-international
   ... what about Paul's reply to your mail?

   Richard: I'm not sure what he is up to

   Francois: inheritance in CSS means: if s.t. is inherited, the effect
   is the same as being specified at a specific element

   Richard: for directionality, that means a new embedding level

   Francois: yes.
   ... you could also say that directionality is not inherited, but the
   effect "goes down"

   Richard: you have 3 ways of inheritance: ITS (no behavior, only
   inheritance of information)
   ... behavior without inheritance, and inheritance together with
   behavior
   ... what will happen without markup, with multiple lines of text?
   ... is there some effect of newlines?

   Francois: newlines in XML are just converted to spaces

   Richard: what about plain text?

   Francois: not aware of a specific handling

   Richard: next step: I resend the mail to www-international and the
   style-list

   Francois: copy the BIDI-unicode list

   <scribe> ACTION: Richard to send his mail on bidi-override scope in
   CSS2 and CSS 2.1 to www-international and the style-list, and copy
   the BIDI-unicode list [recorded in
   [21]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action08]

XML Schema issue

   [22]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2006JulSep/
   0134.html

     [22]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2006JulSep/0134.html

   Francois summarizes the mail

   Richard: we have enough on the battle of early normalization

   Francois: yes
   ... I sad it was a good idea
   ... we cannot have early Unicode normalization, so it is better to
   have this
   ... I send my reply to Michael also to the list and wait a week

   <scribe> ACTION: Francois to send his reply on xml schema to the
   list [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action09]

LC reviews

   Felix: possibility of reviewing Voice Extensible Markup Language
   (VoiceXML) 2.1
   ... see [24]http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-voicexml21-20060915/

     [24] http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-voicexml21-20060915/

   Francois: changes at
   [25]http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-voicexml21-20060915/#sec-changes
   ... nothing i18n specific it seems

     [25] http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-voicexml21-20060915/#sec-changes

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Felix to write a mail about possibility for SVG tiny
   specific IRI tests to martin and the i18n core list [recorded in
   [26]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action03]
   [NEW] ACTION: Francois to give input to wiki for the LTLI summary
   [recorded in
   [27]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action06]
   [NEW] ACTION: Francois to send his reply on xml schema to the list
   [recorded in
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action09]
   [NEW] ACTION: Richard to send his mail on bidi-override scope in
   CSS2 and CSS 2.1 to www-international and the style-list, and copy
   the BIDI-unicode list [recorded in
   [29]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action08]

   [PENDING] ACTION: all to look at charmod resid test suite and gather
   feedback [recorded in
   [30]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action02]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Francois to build a current issues list on charmod
   norm [recorded in
   [31]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action04]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Mary will make the updates discussed in Mandelieu
   on ws-i18n [recorded in
   [32]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action05]

   [DROPPED] ACTION: Everybody to look at input mode discussion
   [recorded in
   [33]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action01]
   [DROPPED] ACTION: Richard to review XHTML Basic
   1.1&#27;$B!!&#27;(Band XHTML&#27;$B!!&#27;(BModularization 1.1
   [recorded in
   [34]http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-i18ncore-minutes.html#action07]

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________


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Received on Tuesday, 19 September 2006 15:08:49 GMT

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