W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-i18n-core@w3.org > July to September 2006

[I18N Core] Teleconference Minutes 2006-07-18

From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 16:48:04 +0900
Message-ID: <44BDE3B4.8070100@w3.org>
To: "public-i18n-core@w3.org" <public-i18n-core@w3.org>
... are at http://www.w3.org/2006/07/18-i18ncore-minutes.html

and below as text.


- Felix



   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                        i18n core working group

18 Jul 2006

   [2]Agenda

      [2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2006Jul/0019.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/18-i18ncore-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Felix, Francois, Karunesh, Mark, Richard, Vijay

   Regrets
   Chair
          Francois

   Scribe
          Felix

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]action items
         2. [6]LTLI discussion
         3. [7]ws i18n progress
         4. [8]LTLI (now with Mark)
         5. [9]other business
     * [10]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

   <scribe> last minutes are at
   [11]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/18-i18ncore-minutes.html

     [11] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/18-i18ncore-minutes.html

   Francois: last meetings minutes - any comments?
   ... nothing

action items

   <scribe> ACTION: Everybody to look at input mode discussion
   (ONGOING) [recorded in
   [12]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/18-i18ncore-minutes.html#action01]

   Felix: I had a short look, what should we do now

   Richard: It will come up in the XHTML review again
   ... but other people might have input here

   Francois: let's keep it ongoing

   <scribe> ACTION: all to look at charmod resid test suite and gather
   feedback (PENDING) [recorded in
   [13]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/18-i18ncore-minutes.html#action02]

   <scribe> ACTION: Francois to build a current issues list on charmod
   norm (PENDING) [recorded in
   [14]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/18-i18ncore-minutes.html#action03]

   <scribe> ACTION: Mary will make the updates discussed in Mandelieu
   on ws-i18n (ONGOING) [recorded in
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/18-i18ncore-minutes.html#action04]

   Mary: working on that
   ... should I just start a second document on the policy?

   Francois: Felix asked what remains in the first document

   Mary: it would describe how the headers look like

   Francois: why having two documents?

   Mary: since you might implement the stuff with a different framework

   Francois: it is more difficult to do more than one document

   Felix: it might help the adoption to have a separate document, which
   would be in line with the other policy domains
   ... Mary, could you edit both documents?

   Mary: it depends, we have to see

   Francois: could we start with one document, and see what happens

   Mary: o.k., let's see if we need two documents

   Francois: the action item is ongoing?

   Mary: Yes

   <scribe> ACTION: Richard to create a wiki on "first letter" (DONE)
   [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/18-i18ncore-minutes.html#action05]

   Richard: not a wiki, though, see:

   <r12a> [17]http://www.w3.org/International/notes/firstletter.html

     [17] http://www.w3.org/International/notes/firstletter.html

   Richard: the current wikis are a pain to edit as they get long
   ... I have a hybrid between a wiki and a mailing system
   ... Karunesh, do you think that is useful?

   Karunesh: The current way will work
   ... I will make some comments

   Richard: sent them to www-international

   Francois: very nice, but more work for Richard

   <scribe> ACTION: Richard to review XHTML Basic 1.1 and XHTML
   Modularization (ONGOING) [recorded in
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/18-i18ncore-minutes.html#action06]

LTLI discussion

   Francois: Mark is not here

   Felix: I'll ping him again

   Francois: we cannot go on without Mark

   <scribe> ACTION: Felix to ping Mark on LTLI discussion [recorded in
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/18-i18ncore-minutes.html#action07]

   Felix: how about matching - should LTLI discuss matching, not
   normatively?

   Richard: if it is not normative, it should not be in LTLI

   Felix: it was just brought up a while ago

   Francois: LTLI could identify use cases for matching on the web
   ... that is more BP than normative spec

   Richard: not sure
   ... this could slow things down for LTLI
   ... this could slow things down

   Francois: that's a worthy point

   Felix: summary: people at the call currently think explanatory
   material on matching should not be on LTLI

   Francois: that's all for this week

ws i18n progress

   [20]http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-ws-i18n-20050914/

     [20] http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-ws-i18n-20050914/

   Francois: already handled during action items

LTLI (now with Mark)

   <fyergeau>
   [21]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2006JulSep/
   0004.html

     [21]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2006JulSep/0004.html

   Francois: discussion state: we need use cases for LTLI

   Francois describes a use case which uses the browsers language

   Richard: we agreed that xml:lang will not be used for local, right?

   Mark: no
   ... you could either deny xml:lang
   ... or is see it as the core of locale, which also gets other
   information from somewhere else
   ... the latter seems to be more practical
   ... "locale" has no well established meaning like language
   ... e.g. for some people, locale definitions requires at least three
   countries
   ... e.g. the nationality of a user, the place of transaction, the
   place of the user etc.
   ... "locale" is an amorphous set of preferences
   ... I think, the core part is language
   ... so people would add other fields for their requirements

   Richard: should we say "a core for locale"
   ... or "the key indicator"?

   Francois: both
   ... it is core, but you can use it also as an indication

   Richard: that is: the other aspects of the locale

   Mark: take a look at time zone

   Francois: what is the use case for time zone on the web?
   ... to give time indications in the users time zone?

   Mark: yes
   ... e.g. for news to say "this happened three hours ago" or "at two
   o'clock"
   ... though sometimes you don't do that

   Francois: time zone is the from language most independent
   locale-part, so its outside the core

   Mark: the same holds for currency

   Francois: for most languages you can make a good guess

   Richard: what is "a locale"?

   Francois: we already agreed that it depends on the application

   Richard: so the locale is not something you can label?

   Mark: the notion of locale is very amorphous

   Francois: you want locale identifiers so that a recipient of some
   information is able to do s.t. with it
   ... it is a collective thing
   ... it applies to a group of people

   Richard: one could say "a locale groups together types of
   information and values that defines the interaction in a particular
   situation"
   ... but we refer to the usage of a particular label

   Francois: we need to distingush locale identifiers versus their
   meaning in different contexts

   Felix: we said two weeks ago that locale is always related to
   processes (interactions), whereas language is a kind of static

   Richard: I wanted to say "xml:lang provides a component of the
   locale information"

   Mark: in most cases the core of the locale is provided by 3066
   ... if you look at Java
   ... posix adds a charset to the notion of locale
   ... but the core is really the language
   ... there is variance in the industry
   ... but not for the core of locale

   Richard: "the core of the locale is given by RFC 3066bis"
   ... that is: locale is a larger thing, and language is only a part
   of it
   ... as you think about locale identification

   Mark: I don't think that we should be too precise in the language
   ... that is: saying that xml:lang provides the core of the locale
   ... for many applications that is sufficient
   ... you just want to cover the 99% cases

   Richard: I liked the way Mark phrased it

   Francois: posix locale is a problem
   ... you may need various ISO standards. We have to make sure that
   this work

   [discussion on posix versus other locale identifiers between Mark
   and Francois]

   Mark: if you specify the country
   ... you need additional information

   Richard: could someone summarize where we are now?

   Francois: I could try, but I would be biased

   Richard: we could set up a wiki

   <scribe> ACTION: Richard to create a wiki for the LTLI discussion,
   Francois to make a summary of the current discussion [recorded in
   [22]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/18-i18ncore-minutes.html#action08]

other business

   Felix: charmod, I'll bring it up on the mailing list

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Felix to ping Mark on LTLI discussion [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/18-i18ncore-minutes.html#action07]
   [NEW] ACTION: Richard to create a wiki for the LTLI discussion,
   Francois to make a summary of the current discussion [recorded in
   [24]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/18-i18ncore-minutes.html#action08]

   [PENDING] ACTION: all to look at charmod resid test suite and gather
   feedback [recorded in
   [25]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/18-i18ncore-minutes.html#action02]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Everybody to look at input mode discussion
   [recorded in
   [26]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/18-i18ncore-minutes.html#action01]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Francois to build a current issues list on charmod
   norm [recorded in
   [27]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/18-i18ncore-minutes.html#action03]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Mary will make the updates discussed in Mandelieu
   on ws-i18n [recorded in
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/18-i18ncore-minutes.html#action04]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Richard to review XHTML Basic 1.1 and XHTML
   Modularization [recorded in
   [29]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/18-i18ncore-minutes.html#action06]

   [DONE] ACTION: Richard to create a wiki on "first letter" [recorded
   in [30]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/18-i18ncore-minutes.html#action05]

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________


    Minutes formatted by David Booth's [31]scribe.perl version 1.127
    ([32]CVS log)
    $Date: 2006/07/19 07:45:11 $

     [31] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
     [32] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

Received on Wednesday, 19 July 2006 07:48:18 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Wednesday, 1 October 2008 10:18:51 GMT