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[I18N Core] Teleconference Minutes 2006-05-16

From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 00:14:45 +0900 (JST)
Message-ID: <1851.84.35.81.2.1147792485.squirrel@webmail.w3.mag.keio.ac.jp>
To: public-i18n-core@w3.org

... are at http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html and below as
text.

Regards, Felix.


   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                        i18n core working group

16 May 2006

   [2]Agenda

      [2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2006May/0010.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Felix, Francois, Karunesh, Richard, Vijay

   Regrets
   Chair
          Francois

   Scribe
          Felix

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]action items
         2. [6]i18n activity restructuring
         3. [7]first letter discussion
         4. [8]other business
     * [9]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

ation items

   <scribe> ACTION: all to look at charmod resid test suite and gather
   feedback (ONGOING) [recorded in
   [10]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action01]

   francois: no new feedback
   ... this will be ongoing

   <scribe> ACTION: all to give feedback on the LTLI draft (ONGOING)
   [recorded in
   [11]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action02]

   <scribe> ACTION: Francois, ping Martin about when we can make the
   tests public (DONE) [recorded in
   [12]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action03]

   francois: did hear from Martin
   ... all pages are no accessible
   ... as for hosting: that will be o.k. as well

   Richard: problem is: we need somebody to edit it or change s.t.
   ... in the W3C side, everybody can do that

   Francois: there are system dependencies which are part of the tests

   Richard: we could probably do that in W3C as well
   ... another problem: How to accept tests from his Organization
   ... since they are not a member of W3C?
   ... again a patent policy problem

   Francois: do we say *we* maintain a test suite?

   "as soon as the following conditions are met:": no need for *us* to
   procude the test suite

   francois: so no requirement to have a W3C test suite
   ... for XML we have a test suite. It was hosted by MIT
   ... NIST is a member, and there were some processes to accept that
   as a contribution.

   Richard: one question: is a non w3c test suite sufficient to get
   through CR?

   <r12a> three main possible scenarios:

   <r12a> [$1\47] stays on martin\s servers and just point to those
   tests over there to fulfill CR criteria

   <r12a> [$1\47] stays on martins servers, but we call them W3C tests

   <r12a> [$1\47] move the tests to W3C servers so taht we can handle
   maintenance more easily

   <r12a> each scenario 1 -3 probably involves increasing
   administrative complexity

   <r12a> ACTION: RI, FS, determine what is the minimal course
   necessary to pass CR [recorded in
   [13]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action04]

   felix: I will send a mail to plh

   <fyergeau> Correction: XML test suite is now hosted at W3C

   <scribe> ACTION: Felix to find out where the tests from Martin are
   (DROPPED) [recorded in
   [14]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action05]

   francois: I mentioned to Martin a start / presentation page, he said
   it would be a good idea

   <scribe> ACTION: Mary will make the updates discussed in Mandelieu
   on ws-i18n [recorded in
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action06]

   <scribe> ACTION: Mary to review [16]http://www.w3.org/TR/its/ after
   18 May before 30 June (ONGOING) [recorded in
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action07]

     [16] http://www.w3.org/TR/its/

   <scribe> ACTION: Francois to build a current issues list on charmod
   norm (PENDING) [recorded in
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action08]

   <scribe> ACTION: Felix to implement discussion results from the
   i18n-comments list (DONE) [recorded in
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action09]

   <scribe> ACTION: Felix to create examples for defined terms (DONE)
   [recorded in
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action10]

   <scribe> ACTION: Felix to ask for a review extension for WCAG (DONE)
   [recorded in
   [21]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action11]

i18n activity restructuring

   Richard: we thought of i18n activity restructuring
   ... which AC reps at the AC meeting will see
   ... it is a discussion, not decided yet

   <r12a> [22]http://www.w3.org/International/Activity.html

     [22] http://www.w3.org/International/Activity.html

   richard: take a look at the bottom of the document
   ... benefit is both for core and the spec work
   ... key benefit: we have been slowing with charmod because we have
   other stuff on the radar
   ... on the other hand, spec work sometimes takes time from the
   review work
   ... separating out the core work from the specification work will
   help a lot
   ... web services work will probably be finished very quickly

   Francois: What will happen for specs which are a REC?

   richard: we have to think about that as well

   Francois: I like the proposal, only life after REC needs to be made
   clearer
   ... if there is a version 2.0 of a spec and there is a working
   group, that's o.k.

   richard: we will also stagger meetings / telefone conferences
   ... e.g. a charmod call every two weeks
   ... key benefit would be that work on specific topics is more
   focused, not distracted by other topics

   francois: so the new core working group will be not under patent
   policy?

   richard: yes
   ... it would be beneficial to many people who want to join core

   francois: one problem: this goes for the AC, and there is a call for
   participation
   ... there is a risc that there is not enough participation to start
   a working group

   richard: for core that's no risk, we have the GEO folks
   ... for the ws working group, we need to have enough support to
   generate a working group
   ... I think we don't need to have a huge working group
   ... as for charmod, it would be maybe only three people
   ... everybody fine with the proposal?
   ... (people on this call)

   no objection

   <karuneshvijay> yes

   topics: LTLI

   Francois: Felix implemented many changes

   Felix: Addison send new comments, please have a look

   Francois: so we send a publication request on Thursday
   ... anything else on LTLI?
   ... nice to see the progress, if you have comments, please send them
   in

   <scribe> ACTION: Felix to send a re-publication request for the LTLI
   draft on Thursday [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action12]

first letter discussion

   Richard: it is a pseudo element

   francois: there was a call for details, and a lot of mail about the
   Indic languages
   ... discussion on the www-international list
   ... should we write a Note about this?
   ... the CSS people seem to be very reluctant to make changes

   Richard: Erika and I talked about it
   ... she asked me about (indic) examples, but not major changes for
   the spec
   ... maybe we should push for a stronger wording

   Francois: the examples show that "first letter, just one unicode
   character" is not sufficient

   Richard: the default grapheme cluster rule would not cope with
   Indian scripts, would it?

   Francois: I'm not sure
   ... this should be checked

   Richard: currently we say:

   Richard quotes the current texts on "first letter"

   <r12a> original text:

   <r12a> Some languages may have specific rules about how to treat
   certain letter

   <r12a> # combinations. In Dutch, for example, if the letter
   combination "ij" appears

   <r12a> # at the beginning of a word, both letters should be
   considered within the

   <r12a> # :first-letter pseudo-element.

   <r12a> first proposal:

   <r12a> Note: In some cases the :first-letter pseudo-element should
   include more

   <r12a> than just the first non-punctuation code point on a line. For
   example,

   <r12a> combining characters must be kept with their base character.
   Additionally,

   <r12a> some languages may have specific rules about how to treat
   certain letter

   <r12a> combinations. In Dutch, for example, if the letter
   combination "ij"

   <r12a> appears at the beginning of an element, both letters should
   be considered

   <r12a> within the ::first-letter pseudo-element. The UA should
   include at least

   <r12a> the entire default grapheme cluster as defined by [UAX 29
   Text Boundaries]

   <r12a> and may include more than that as appropriate.

   Francois: we where proposing "default grapheme cluster" as the base
   line
   ... they (CSS group) did not want to have that as a normative part,
   which is regretable
   ... because it does not cover many common things
   ... maybe we should push back now

   Richard: karunesh, Vijay, is where a language specific varitation of
   what a first letter is?
   ... in latin scripts, there is language specific variations on how
   first letters shoud be treated, e.g. "ij" in Dutch
   ... the question is: are there language specific variations of first
   letter styling for various indic scripts?

   Karunesh: If you use Dev., the rules would be the same
   ... the situation might be different for other (indic)scripts
   ... the grapheme cluster seems to be an approriate unit

   karunesh gives some examples

   Richard: gathering this information sounds interesting

   Karunesh: we are investigating from many specialists

   Richard: Should we set up a wiki for this?

   Francois: good idea

   Karunesh: wiki sounds also good to me

   Richard: would be good to involve the Unicode list
   ... many people on that list could make some input on this
   ... I'll put out another blog entry on this, which will point to the
   new wiki, and send a mail to the Unicode list about this

   <scribe> ACTION: Richard to create a wiki on "first letter", post a
   blog and write a mail to the Unicode list about it [recorded in
   [24]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action13]

other business

   francois: next week no meeting

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Felix to send a re-publication request for the LTLI
   draft on Thursday [recorded in
   [25]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action12]
   [NEW] ACTION: Mary will make the updates discussed in Mandelieu on
   ws-i18n [recorded in
   [26]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action06]
   [NEW] ACTION: RI, FS, determine what is the minimal course necessary
   to pass CR [recorded in
   [27]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action04]
   [NEW] ACTION: Richard to create a wiki on "first letter", post a
   blog and write a mail to the Unicode list about it [recorded in
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action13]
   [ONGOING] ACTION: all to look at charmod resid test suite and gather
   feedback [recorded in
   [29]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action01]

   [PENDING] ACTION: all to give feedback on the LTLI draft [recorded
   in [30]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action02]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Francois to build a current issues list on charmod
   norm [recorded in
   [31]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action08]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Mary to review [32]http://www.w3.org/TR/its/ after
   18 May before 30 June [recorded in
   [33]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action07]

     [32] http://www.w3.org/TR/its/

   [DONE] ACTION: Francois, ping Martin about when we can make the
   tests public [recorded in
   [34]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action03]
   [DONE] ACTION: Felix to ask for a review extension for WCAG
   [recorded in
   [35]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action11]
   [DONE] ACTION: Felix to create examples for defined terms [recorded
   in [36]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action10]
   [DONE] ACTION: Felix to implement discussion results from the
   i18n-comments list [recorded in
   [37]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action09]

   [DROPPED] ACTION: Felix to find out where the tests from Martin are
   [recorded in
   [38]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action05]

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________


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Received on Tuesday, 16 May 2006 15:21:15 GMT

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