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[I18N Core] Teleconference Minutes 2006-04-11

From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 16:12:48 +0900
Message-ID: <443CA870.9080602@w3.org>
To: "public-i18n-core@w3.org" <public-i18n-core@w3.org>
Cc: Max Froumentin <mf@w3.org>, Kazuyuki Ashimura <ashimura@w3.org>, Karl Dubost <karl@w3.org>
are at http://www.w3.org/2006/04/11-i18ncore-minutes.html

and below as text.

I am sending this also to Karl, Kazuyuki and Max, because of the
"voice+charmod" discussion.


Regards, Felix.


   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                        i18n core working group

11 Apr 2006

   [2]Agenda

      [2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2006Apr/0028.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2006/04/11-i18ncore-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Felix, Francois, Kazuyuki (voice browser wg), Mary, Max
          (voice browser wg), Richard

   Regrets
   Chair
          Francois

   Scribe
          Felix

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]action items
         2. [6]charmod + voice xml 2.1 (discussion in the group)
         3. [7]home page
         4. [8]charmod + voice xml 2.1 (discussion with max and kaz)
     * [9]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

action items

   <scribe> ACTION: all to look at the TAG issue (DONE) [recorded in
   [10]http://www.w3.org/2006/04/11-i18ncore-minutes.html#action01]

   felix: karl said he will not bring the issue to the TAG
   ... for now

   <scribe> ACTION: everybody to look at the mail about
   charmod+voicexml (DONE) [recorded in
   [11]http://www.w3.org/2006/04/11-i18ncore-minutes.html#action02]

   <scribe> ACTION: Felix ask Max if he can join next week's i18n core
   call (DONE) [recorded in
   [12]http://www.w3.org/2006/04/11-i18ncore-minutes.html#action03]

   felix: max and kazuyuki will join us later about this

   <scribe> ACTION: Felix to write an IRI implementation report (DONE)
   [recorded in
   [13]http://www.w3.org/2006/04/11-i18ncore-minutes.html#action04]

   <scribe> ACTION: Felix to find out where the tests from Martin are
   located (ONGOING) [recorded in
   [14]http://www.w3.org/2006/04/11-i18ncore-minutes.html#action05]

   francois: need to follow up on that

   <scribe> ACTION: felix to go trough LTLI within the next 2 weeks
   (DONE) [recorded in
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2006/04/11-i18ncore-minutes.html#action06]

   <scribe> ACTION: Francois to build a current issues list on charmod
   (PENDING) [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2006/04/11-i18ncore-minutes.html#action07]

   <scribe> ACTION: Mary to look at WS Addr (DONE) [recorded in
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2006/04/11-i18ncore-minutes.html#action08]

   mary: looked at it
   ... they don't need really comments, it seemed to be o.k.
   ... they use IRIs

   francois: good
   ... so we just forget about it for now

   <scribe> ACTION: Mary will make the updates discussed in Mandelieu
   on ws i18n (ONGOING) [recorded in
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2006/04/11-i18ncore-minutes.html#action09]

charmod + voice xml 2.1 (discussion in the group)

   background: mail from Martin, reply to Max' initial mail about why
   voice xml 2.1 cannot refer to charmod normatively:

   [19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2006Apr/001
   9.html

     [19]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2006Apr/0019.html

   [20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2006Apr/002
   0.html

     [20]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2006Apr/0020.html

   francois: it is a problem with IPA
   ... but "sounds" in charmod is the sounds as human understand it
   ... which IPA is designed for

   richard: if you deal with phonemes
   ... the same phonetic symbol may be pronounced differently, in
   relation to language
   ... at the phonemic level, there are not fine distinctions

   francois: the full range of a phoneme is language dependent
   ... but SSML is speech synthesis
   ... i.e., you create the IPA character and create a sound which is
   not language dependend at all
   ... we wrote this MUST because of "normal" writing systems
   ... where is no 1:1 relation between writing and speech
   ... but IPA exists exactly for that
   ... so the MUST NOT needs an exception clause like
   ... "except in the case of phonetic alphabets"
   ... we could integrate this as an errata in charmod
   ... next issue: C013
   ... I agree

   Richard: they don't use the term "encoding" in the same way
   ... they mean a format for representing data, not "character
   encoding" as we do

   francois: just a misunderstanding, no breaking
   ... next issue: C043:
   ... no breakage
   ... C010: easy to fix
   ... C067:
   ... they should use a different term, it' possible without breaking
   anything in their specs
   ... C014:
   ... I don't understand the issue

   richard: I don't see that as an issue

   francois: it is not explicit, that's all

home page

   <r12a> [21]http://www.w3.org/blog/I18NBlog.php

     [21] http://www.w3.org/blog/I18NBlog.php

   richard: it is blog based
   ... this will make it much easier to keep the home page up to date
   ... I used to run XSLT processes and a lot of copying
   ... now if you have the permisson to write to the blog, you can do
   it yourself

   francois: so it is a content management system?

   richard: it is a blog software called D2Evolution

   francois: that sounds good
   ... does it also do excerpting of news items?

   richard: yes

   francois: a good CMS is wonderful
   ... so this would be the HP for the activity
   ... I'm not sure if they are needed for the working group HPs
   ... it is a way of handling news

   richard: you can put other things in as well
   ... it is basically the same page, but with other stuff for handling
   news

   francois: very nice
   ... it is permisson based?

   richard: yes
   ... any problems with this?

   everybody likes the idea

   richard: it will be mapped to the normal
   /International/Overview.html
   ... an internal mapping, you won't see it

   francois: very good

charmod + voice xml 2.1 (discussion with max and kaz)

   [22]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2006Apr/002
   0.html

     [22]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2006Apr/0020.html

   <r12a> "C001 [S] [I] [C] Specifications, software and content MUST
   NOT

   <r12a> > require or depend on a one-to-one correspondence between
   characters

   <r12a> > and the sounds of a language."

   francois: the don't think that this is an error of charmod, but we
   need to make clear that the scope of this statement are other
   languages than IPA

   maxf: I'm fine with amanding c001 that it is not about phonetic
   languages, but the other ones

   francois: explains C013
   ... voice xml documents are XML, i.e. in a single character encoding
   ... DTMF is another data object, we don't see a conflict with
   charmod

   maxf: I probably misunderstood what was meant by "data object"

   francois: if you use XML, you don't violate C013
   ... C043 : XML breaks that, that is why it is a SHOULD
   ... your spec does it on the virtue of XML
   ... you cannot violate XML in your spec

   maxf: does it make sense to say that documents should conform to
   charmod?

   francois: yes, as much as it is applicable

   maxf: so if it is XML, does it not come automatically?

   francois: a lot does, but even then a lot of things need to be
   discussed
   ... there are some charmod requirements about content
   ... e.g. the 1:1: correspondence of sound and characters, which we
   will fix

   maxf: another question:
   ... if the first version of our spec did not mandate charmod
   ... and if we mandate it now
   ... do we loose backward compatibility?

   francois: I don't know the spec to give an answer

   maxf: it is more a question of QA

   francois: you are 95% covered because of XML

   maxf: yes, but what about the 5% left?
   ... e.g. the two syntaxes for character escapes

   francois: but that does not break XML
   ... you encourage people not to break a SHOULD, but if you have good
   reasons, it is o.k.
   ... C010:
   ... if there is a problem about the term "character" in your spec,
   it should be fixed
   ... I don't know where voice xml breaks, but can't you fix it?

   maxf: voice xml 2.1 is a diff spec
   ... it adds features on top of 2.0
   ... we don't indent to change 2.0

   francois: but you could add a definition saying what you mean by
   character in the 2.1 diff
   ... if it is localized in a section, it is possible

   maxf: we talk sometimes about DTMS "characters", not XML characters

   francois: to me DTMF is tones, not characters

   maxf: there is a mapping to characters

   <Kazuyuki> :)

   richard: as tones are mapped to characters
   ... that are unicode characters, right?

   maxf: in the voice xml spec, there is no mapping defined
   ... looking for the part of the spec which talks about it

   <maxf> <choice dtmf="1"
   next="[23]http://www.sports.example.com/vxml/start.vxml"/>

     [23] http://www.sports.example.com/vxml/start.vxml

   <maxf> <choice dtmf="2"
   next="[24]http://www.weather.example.com/intro.vxml"/>

     [24] http://www.weather.example.com/intro.vxml

   <maxf> <choice dtmf="3"
   next="[25]http://www.stargazer.example.com/astronews.vxml"/>

     [25] http://www.stargazer.example.com/astronews.vxml

   francois: what is dtmf=1?

   maxf: it says "the DTMF recognizer has received a character '1"

   francois: so there is a mapping

   maxf: but the DTMF document don't say that, they are not explicit
   about it

   richard: characters like "1" and "2" exist in Unicode, so there is a
   problem in Unicode

   maxf: the problem is our wrong use of "character"

   francois: so these are XML characters to match these characters
   ... so the DTMF recognizer does the mapping, it is outside the voice
   xml spec
   ... if there is a different DTMF version, the spec would just use
   that

   maxf: yes

   francois: that's no conflict with charmod

   maxf: do you recommend that we change our wording?

   francois: if you write s.t. like "if we say characters, we mean XML
   characters"

   maxf: o.k.

   francois: C014
   ... no conflict as well
   ... so all is left is C001

Summary of Action Items

   [PENDING] ACTION: Felix to find out where the tests from Martin are
   located [recorded in
   [26]http://www.w3.org/2006/04/11-i18ncore-minutes.html#action05]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Francois to build a current issues list on charmod
   [recorded in
   [27]http://www.w3.org/2006/04/11-i18ncore-minutes.html#action07]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Mary will make the updates discussed in Mandelieu
   on ws i18n [recorded in
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2006/04/11-i18ncore-minutes.html#action09]

   [DONE] ACTION: all to look at the TAG issue [recorded in
   [29]http://www.w3.org/2006/04/11-i18ncore-minutes.html#action01]
   [DONE] ACTION: everybody to look at the mail about charmod+voicexml
   [recorded in
   [30]http://www.w3.org/2006/04/11-i18ncore-minutes.html#action02]
   [DONE] ACTION: Felix ask Max if he can join next week's i18n core
   call [recorded in
   [31]http://www.w3.org/2006/04/11-i18ncore-minutes.html#action03]
   [DONE] ACTION: felix to go trough LTLI within the next 2 weeks
   [recorded in
   [32]http://www.w3.org/2006/04/11-i18ncore-minutes.html#action06]
   [DONE] ACTION: Felix to write an IRI implementation report [recorded
   in [33]http://www.w3.org/2006/04/11-i18ncore-minutes.html#action04]
   [DONE] ACTION: Mary to look at WS Addr [recorded in
   [34]http://www.w3.org/2006/04/11-i18ncore-minutes.html#action08]

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________


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Received on Wednesday, 12 April 2006 07:13:04 GMT

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