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RE: ACTION A-Redmond05-01: timezone health warning

From: Addison Phillips <addison.phillips@quest.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 05:44:20 -0700
Message-ID: <634978A7DF025A40BFEF33EB191E13BC0CD1D255@irvmbxw01.quest.com>
To: "Jim Melton" <jim.melton@acm.org>, "Mark Davis" <mark.davis@icu-project.org>
Cc: <ashok.malhotra@oracle.com>, "Paul Cotton" <pcotton@microsoft.com>, <w3c-xsl-query@w3.org>, <public-i18n-core@w3.org>

... which is exactly the reason I used that as an example. 

In fact, most birth dates are captured sans the time portion---that is, as true "date" and not as "dateTime" values. The fact that many programming languages do not have a data type for this type of value is the source of conversion woes and exactly the point of this Note. An example that can cause problems that I see with some regularity:

   // implicit conversion to "computer time"--milliseconds since epoch
   Date birthDate = resultset.getDate("BirthDate");

Addison   

Addison P. Phillips
Globalization Architect, Quest Software
Chair, W3C Internationalization Core Working Group

Internationalization is not a feature.
It is an architecture. 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Melton [mailto:jim.melton@acm.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 5:17 AM
> To: Mark Davis
> Cc: Addison Phillips; ashok.malhotra@oracle.com; Paul Cotton; w3c-xsl-
> query@w3.org; public-i18n-core@w3.org
> Subject: Re: ACTION A-Redmond05-01: timezone health warning
> 
> Mark,
> 
> First, a slightly belated happy birthday!
> 
> Not to put too fine a point on it, but 19:32 on September 13
> (anywhere in the USA, but I don't know the time zone in which you
> were born) is either 10:32, 11:32, 12:32, or 13:32 on September 14 in
> Tokyo.  I doubt that, if you happened to be in Tokyo this week, that
> you would celebrate your birthday on September 14, even though that
> would allow you to do so at exactly n years from your astronomical
> birth time.  You're pretty likely, statistically speaking, to
> celebrate your birthday in Tokyo on 13 September, just as you would
> do if you were in San Jose, Denver, or New York.  No?
> 
> Hope this helps!
>     Jim
> 
> At 9/13/2005 11:54 AM, Mark Davis wrote:
> 
> >Note: someone in IBM objected to the statement:
> >
> > > One application for this type of representation is for values
> > that are time zone independent, representing a logical event
> > divorced from a particular location on the Earth. For example, a
> > person's birth date is independent of time zone.
> >
> >He has a certain point. My birth date is not really disconnected,
> >since it is based on the time zone where I was born. For example, I
> >was born at 7:32 PT on Sept 13 (and for those who like puzzles, my
> >age today in hex is the transposition of my name in decimal).
> >
> >Should we use a different example or slightly different wording?
> >
> >Mark
> >
> >Addison Phillips wrote:
> >>Dear Ashok,
> >>Thanks for this update and the changes, which look fine. We took an
> >>action in our meeting today to reduce the Wiki to Note format and
> >>request publication as a Note ASAP. You should see the first
> >>transition request next week.
> >>Addison
> >>Addison P. Phillips
> >>Globalization Architect, Quest Software
> >>Chair, W3C Internationalization Core Working Group
> >>Internationalization is not a feature.
> >>It is an architecture.
> >>
> >>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>From: Ashok Malhotra [mailto:ashok.malhotra@oracle.com]
> >>>Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 9:44 AM
> >>>To: Addison Phillips; Paul Cotton
> >>>Cc: w3c-xsl-query@w3.org; public-i18n-core@w3.org
> >>>Subject: RE: ACTION A-Redmond05-01: timezone health warning
> >>>
> >>>The XML Query and the XSL WGs decided that the text on the Wiki page
> >>>was acceptable for publication as a note as long as a couple of changes
> >>>were made.  I have made the changes.
> >>>
> >>>Can you publish the material as a note?  Please inform us when that is
> >>>done
> >>>and we will add the appropriate reference from the F&O.
> >>>
> >>>All the best, Ashok
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>From: Addison Phillips [mailto:addison.phillips@quest.com]
> >>>>Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 8:49 AM
> >>>>To: Paul Cotton; ashok.malhotra@oracle.com
> >>>>Cc: w3c-xsl-query@w3.org; public-i18n-core@w3.org
> >>>>Subject: RE: ACTION A-Redmond05-01: timezone health warning
> >>>>
> >>>>Hi Paul,
> >>>>
> >>>>I had an action item to follow up this week with Ashok. I
> >>>>believe we are done with our editing homework. The question
> >>>>is what form the health warning should take in your document.
> >>>>Our text is slightly long.
> >>>>
> >>>>We want to suggest that we publish our document as a Note and
> >>>>that you include a reference to it in your document.
> >>>>
> >>>>The document itself is currently located in the Wiki:
> >>>>
> >>>>http://esw.w3.org/topic/i18nFAQTimeZone#preview
> >>>>
> >>>>Please let us know if you have particular concerns with the
> >>>>content or if you prefer a different course of action for
> >>>>including material from it in yours.
> >>>>
> >>>>Addison
> >>>>
> >>>>Addison P. Phillips
> >>>>Globalization Architect, Quest Software
> >>>>Chair, W3C Internationalization Core Working Group
> >>>>
> >>>>Internationalization is not a feature.
> >>>>It is an architecture.
> >>>>
> >>>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>>From: Paul Cotton [mailto:pcotton@microsoft.com]
> >>>>>Sent: 2005?8?31? 20:55
> >>>>>To: ashok.malhotra@oracle.com; Addison Phillips
> >>>>>Cc: w3c-xsl-query@w3.org
> >>>>>Subject: ACTION A-Redmond05-01: timezone health warning
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>ACTION A-Redmond05-01 Ashok will work with Addison to
> >>>>
> >>>>develop text
> >>>>
> >>>>>>for the timezone health warning.  ETA end of August.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Is the text for the health warning ready?  If it is can one of you
> >>>>>please reply to this message with the proposed text or a
> >>>>
> >>>>pointer to it?
> >>>>
> >>>>>/paulc
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
> >>>>>17 Eleanor Drive, Nepean, Ontario K2E 6A3
> >>>>>Tel: (613) 225-5445 Fax: (425) 936-7329 mailto:pcotton@microsoft.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> 
> ========================================================================
> Jim Melton --- Editor of ISO/IEC 9075-* (SQL)     Phone: +1.801.942.0144
>    Co-Chair, W3C XML Query WG; F&O (etc.) editor    Fax : +1.801.942.3345
> Oracle Corporation        Oracle Email: jim dot melton at oracle dot com
> 1930 Viscounti Drive      Standards email: jim dot melton at acm dot org
> Sandy, UT 84093-1063 USA          Personal email: jim at melton dot name
> ========================================================================
> =  Facts are facts.   But any opinions expressed are the opinions      =
> =  only of myself and may or may not reflect the opinions of anybody   =
> =  else with whom I may or may not have discussed the issues at hand.  =
> ========================================================================
> 
Received on Wednesday, 14 September 2005 12:44:35 GMT

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