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Re: Memo from ruby disucssion with Roland

From: Roland Steiner <rolandsteiner@google.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 11:55:15 +0900
Message-ID: <CACFPSpiDrQJmZ2w_nZZCCb4Up3i6+WXger6u2okc=OkaEmkR8A@mail.gmail.com>
To: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Cc: Koji Ishii <kojiishi@gluesoft.co.jp>, fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>, "public-i18n-cjk@w3.org" <public-i18n-cjk@w3.org>
With "current standard" I referred to the HTML5 spec, which essentially
encodes IE's implementation, and which in turn is followed by WebKit's
implementation:

    <ruby>base1<rt>text1</rt>base2<rt>text2</rt>base3<rt>text3</rt></ruby>

i.e., column-major, without <rb>, <rbc>, <rtc>. (<rp> is supported, but
omitted for simplicity.)

I fail to see how this can be construed as having "some support for both
models".


- Roland

On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 11:42, Leif Halvard Silli <
xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no> wrote:

> Roland Steiner, Thu, 23 Feb 2012 11:02:18 +0900:
> > On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 07:24, Leif Halvard Silli wrote:
> >> 1. Are there anyone - apart from Ian - with a stake in this, that argue
> >> that it should be column-major?
> >
> > The current standard and implementations are column-major.
>
> You mix it up, I think. If we take specs firsts, then according the
> letter from Koji that started this thread,[1] then [ignoring <rtc> and
> <rbc>] this is the XHTML Ruby module' model  'row-major':
>
>   <ruby><rb/><rb/><rb/>
>         <rt/><rt/><rt/><ruby>
>
> While this is the model that Ian placed in HTML5   'column-major':
>
>   <ruby><rb/><rt/><rb/>
>         <rt/><rb/><rt/></ruby>
>
> If we look at implementations, as long as we with 'support' have visual
> display in mind, then IE and Webkit appears to have some support for
> both models. [But if we consider what they present to find-in-page,
> screen readers or present as fallback with CSS disabled, then they only
> support row-major.]
>
> Koji's description of 'row-major': '"row-major" approach; split first
> by rows and then by columns.'
>
> >> 2. Do we agree that column-major - what is in HTML5 now - should be
> >> non-conforming?
> >
> > I don't think that's an option as it would break existing pages. A
> > solution should have graceful fallback to both the current standard
> > as well as to no <ruby> support.
>
> I believe, when you said 'column-major', your really meant 'row-major',
> not? And if so, then we can conclude, that so far, everyone in this
> group is in favor of row-major.
>
> The question I am still uncertain of, though, is whether anyone thing
> that HTML5's column-major needs to remain conforming. My opinion about
> that is negative - it need not and should not.
>
> [1]
>
> http://www.w3.org/mid/A592E245B36A8949BDB0A302B375FB4E0D334EFCD6@MAILR001.mail.lan
> --
> Leif Halvard Silli
Received on Thursday, 23 February 2012 02:56:03 GMT

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