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Re: [Bug 10838] New: Make <u> conforming.

From: Kenny <kennyluck@csail.mit.edu>
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 08:43:00 +0900
Message-Id: <2A6155DB-1723-43F4-9960-72E732DBBD5F@csail.mit.edu>
To: CJK discussion <public-i18n-cjk@w3.org>
說明一下、、這算是對之前專名號的討論[1]做的回應, 
總之就是希望HTML5標準書至少不會把<u>放在「不合標準 
的標籤」[2] 而至少放在「將被拋棄但是合標準」[3]。 
很抱歉沒先在這個郵件群組得到共識,但是從10/1開始 
回報標準錯誤的過程會進入下一個階段所以我至少希望 
這個議題在這個時候被拿出來討論一下。我目前的看法 
是

- 加一個新標籤(像是<pn>之類的)真的很不可能
- 用<a>或<a href>(屬性沒值)是一種濫用
- <span class="pn"> 還是有點太長了
- Mike跟我講說<i>留下來的很大原因是因為西方會用斜體 
標船名,總不能發明一個<ship>吧。所以<u>是比較實在 
的,而且也不少人支持把<u>拿回來。



總之這個議題處理的狀況都會CC到這個列表啦,如果這 
個提案被回絕了大家也多多瞭解這個HTML5編輯Ian Hickson 
是怎麼做事的吧。議題回報裡我也提到了之前的討論 
(三年前了、、),有些為什麼<u>不見了但是<b><i>回來 
了的原因(主要就是<u>跟超連結的混亂問題)。不過那 
時候都沒什麼人提到專名號所以這次就順便提了一提 
啦!

歡迎大家用HTML5 Bug Tracker的時候CC到這邊來。

有空再多介紹一些HTML5的名人吧(像是Bug裡提到的Apple 
的Maciej[5])

[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-ig-zh/2010Aug/threadl#msg184
[2] http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/obsolete.html#non-conforming-features
[3] http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/obsolete.html#obsolete-but-conforming-features
[4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Dec/thread#msg268
[5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maciej_Stachowiak

此致

Kenny

On 2010/09/30, at 8:06, bugzilla@jessica.w3.org wrote:

> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10838
>
>           Summary: Make <u> conforming.
>           Product: HTML WG
>           Version: unspecified
>          Platform: PC
>               URL: http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/obsolete.html#obsolete-but-
>                    conforming-features
>        OS/Version: All
>            Status: NEW
>          Severity: major
>          Priority: P3
>         Component: HTML5 spec (editor: Ian Hickson)
>        AssignedTo: ian@hixie.ch
>        ReportedBy: kennyluck@w3.org
>         QAContact: public-html-bugzilla@w3.org
>                CC: mike@w3.org, public-html-wg-issue-tracking@w3.org,
>                    public-html@w3.org, public-i18n-cjk@w3.org,
>                    public-html-ig-zh@w3.org
>
>
> This was discussed in a long thread[1] three years ago. There was no  
> consensus
> and no response from the editor, but since some people like Maciej  
> think we can
> make <u> at least conforming[2], I would like to raise this bug to  
> catch the
> editor's attention.
>
> Proper name mark, in Chinese [3] is a use case that was slightly  
> mentioned in
> the thread (see also an example picture[4]). The purpose of this  
> mark is to
> highlight *every* proper noun in some text to help the reader break  
> words,
> cause Chinese people don't use spaces for word breaking. Although it  
> is no
> longer popular recently, proper name mark is still used in some  
> textbooks in
> Taiwan (esp. children's Chinese textbook) and Hong Kong. Because the  
> purpose
> and frequency of using "proper name mark" in a piece of text is  
> similar to code
> highlighting, I personally don't think it's appropriate to use  
> <mark> for this
> purpose since the spec says "This (<mark>) is separate from syntax
> highlighting, for which span is more appropriate." But then <span  
> class="pn">
> is probably too long. This is not yet a very prevalent use case  
> because proper
> name marks are often used in combination with vertical text and  
> vertical text
> is not yet popular on the Web.
>
> While I do strongly agree that an underlined text which is not a  
> hyperlink
> confuses the user in his/her browsing experience, there are HTML  
> user agents
> for which browsing the Web isn't the main purpose and hence the user  
> might not
> get confused. e-book readers are such examles.
>
> [1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Dec/thread#msg268
> [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Dec/0307
> [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proper_name_mark
> [4] http://www.go8.com.tw/files/4168%200004.jpg
>
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Received on Wednesday, 29 September 2010 23:43:58 GMT

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