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Re: [css-text] Arabic letters connecting between elements with display: inline

From: Aharon (Vladimir) Lanin <aharon@google.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 06:38:30 -0500
Message-ID: <CA+FsOYbEUJ3GT+T5=xG7PSH4pF+j7Ss0z3oYF91=bfH3rqXrdg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Behdad Esfahbod <behdad@behdad.org>
Cc: fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>, Simon Montagu <smontagu@mozilla.com>, Behdad Esfahbod <behdad@google.com>, "Amir E. Aharoni" <amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il>, jfkthame@gmail.com, "public-i18n-bidi@w3.org" <public-i18n-bidi@w3.org>, "www-style@w3.org" <www-style@w3.org>, WWW International <www-international@w3.org>
> I'll go as far as saying that a new property might be in order.  For
example,
> I can imagine, though not find in my references, that depending on taste,
one
> may or may not want joining in a drop-cap in Arabic.

Besides a value that prevents joining (i.e. puts a virtual ZWNJ at both
ends) and a value that does nothing, do you think that a value that forces
joining (i.e. puts ZWJ at both ends) is also useful / necessary?

Given that the same effect can be achieved for when one wants to prevent
joining by using :before + :after to insert ZWNJ, is a new property really
necessary?

> I don't think padding / margins should be relevant at all.  Letter-spacing
> doesn't disable Arabic shaping.  Why should any other space do?

Because padding and margin are used to separate logically separate pieces
of text. As for letter-spacing, wouldn't it be a lot more useful if it
joined the letters with a longer line (tatweel-like), not leaving a space
between them? And if the answer is no, then it is obviously for some very
special application when one really does want spaces between letters that
should normally be joined, and no lesson can be learned from letter-spacing
for padding and margin. I do realize that sometimes, mostly for educational
purposes, one wants letters that are normally joined to be displayed with a
space between them, but still shaped like they would be without the space,
but I think that this is a very rare use case, and it could be achieved by
using ZWJ when necessary..


On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 4:45 PM, Behdad Esfahbod <behdad@behdad.org> wrote:

> On 14-02-07 03:44 PM, fantasai wrote:
> >
> > The issue is (as the title says) whether Arabic letters connect between
> > elements with 'display: inline', for example in this case:
> >   <p>foo<span color="blue">bar</span>baz</p>
>
> By default, they should, even if the spans use different fonts.  AFAIK no
> browser currently does this, but it's good to document and require it.
>
> I'll go as far as saying that a new property might be in order.  For
> example,
> I can imagine, though not find in my references, that depending on taste,
> one
> may or may not want joining in a drop-cap in Arabic.
>
> I don't think padding / margins should be relevant at all.  Letter-spacing
> doesn't disable Arabic shaping.  Why should any other space do?
>
> As for what should by default disable shaping across boundaries, I don't
> know.
>  Whatever initiates bidi:isolate is a good starting place indeed.
>
> --
> behdad
> http://behdad.org/
>
Received on Thursday, 13 February 2014 11:39:17 UTC

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