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Re: titledir

From: Aharon (Vladimir) Lanin <aharon@google.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 13:01:16 +0300
Message-ID: <AANLkTimfH=YyDJaFo6S=_gxo+Fm8d9WMJSGNVVR0waj_@mail.gmail.com>
To: Ehsan Akhgari <ehsan@mozilla.com>
Cc: public-i18n-bidi@w3.org
> As far as I know, the longdesc attribute points to a URL, and
> therefore is not subject to the same considerations as the title
> attribute.

You have a point. And given that no browser actually supports longdesc, it's
best to simply not mention it.

> The alt attribute, as applied to images, _can_ potentially
> be subject to the same concern [as the title attribute], IMO.
> However, I think in order to
> determine the direction of the alternate text, I think it should be
> safe to specify that user agents are supposed to use the value of the
> dir attribute on the img element (or its computed CSS direction).

It is indeed the intent to propose, for both alt and title, that their
direction should be specified by the element's computed direction (which can
be set by its dir attribute). However, for title, we are proposing a way to
override it with titledir because it is not unreasonable to want an
opposite-direction title on an element. Although obviously nothing prevents
an author from doing the same in alt, I don't think that it is a good idea
for the author to do that, and so I don't think that we should encourage it
by giving a way to specify it.

> Furthermore, I don't see why we need to explicitly specify that the
> titledir attribute should not have a CSS equivalent.

Do you think it needs a CSS equivalent?

Aharon

On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 6:44 AM, Ehsan Akhgari <ehsan@mozilla.com> wrote:

> As far as I know, the longdesc attribute points to a URL, and
> therefore is not subject to the same considerations as the title
> attribute.  The alt attribute, as applied to images, _can_ potentially
> be subject to the same concern, IMO.  However, I think in order to
> determine the direction of the alternate text, I think it should be
> safe to specify that user agents are supposed to use the value of the
> dir attribute on the img element (or its computed CSS direction).
>
> Furthermore, I don't see why we need to explicitly specify that the
> titledir attribute should not have a CSS equivalent.
>
> I agree with the rest of the proposal as presented by Aharon.
>
> --
> Ehsan
> <http://ehsanakhgari.org/>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 6:14 AM, Aharon (Vladimir) Lanin
> <aharon@google.com> wrote:
> > Section 3.6 of Additional Requirements for Bidi in HTML proposes that
> "The
> > HTML specification should explicitly state that title and alt attribute
> text
> > will be displayed in the element's computed direction." On the other
> hand,
> > the section also points out that at times, the direction of an element
> and
> > the text of its tooltip do not naturally coincide, and brings as an
> example
> > an RTL web page that displays an LTR address (e.g. for a location in
> > Europe), with a tooltip on the address element saying "ADDRESS" in the
> > page's language. The tooltip thus needs to be RTL while the element needs
> to
> > be LTR. Although a workaround can be found for this example (wrapping the
> > address element with a span or a div containing the tooltip, while
> leaving
> > the dir=ltr for the address element inside, and thus not affecting the
> > tooltip), workarounds are not ideal.
> >
> > Past discussion has therefore proposed adding an explicit titledir
> attribute
> > to the HTML specification, allowed on all elements that allow the title
> > attribute, and allowing the same values as the dir attribute. When not
> > specified, element's computed direction would be used (as already
> proposed).
> > It is my intention to add this to the next draft of the proposal.
> >
> > The question has been raised whether titledir would / should also apply
> to
> > the alt and longdesc attributes (which go together). My feelings are that
> it
> > should not, for the following reasons:
> >
> > - It is not something that is easily guessed from the proposed "titledir"
> > name.
> >
> > - While the title attribute is used to give additional information about
> its
> > element, and additional information can indeed be in a different language
> > than the element or the rest of the page, the alt attribute is used to
> give
> > an alternate description, i.e. the text that will be displayed instead of
> > the element when the element can not be displayed. It should therefore be
> in
> > the same language as the element, and its direction should not differ
> from
> > the element's computed direction.
> >
> > Thus titledir should apply to title only, while the element's computed
> > direction should apply to title (when titledir is not specified), as well
> as
> > alt and longdesc.
> >
> > To round out the definition of titledir, I think that it should:
> > - not be inherited.
> > - not have any CSS counterpart.
> >
> > Aharon
> >
>
Received on Friday, 3 September 2010 10:02:09 GMT

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