[minutes] Arabic layout telecon 2016-02-23

https://www.w3.org/2016/02/23-alreq-minutes.html




text version follows:


  Arabic layout telecon

23 Feb 2016

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2016/02/23-alreq-irc

Attendees

    Present
           mostafa, Shervin, r12a,Najib

    Regrets
           behnam

    Chair
           Shervin

    Scribe
           mostafa

Contents

      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]Review of Github issues
      * [5]Summary of Action Items
      * [6]Summary of Resolutions
      __________________________________________________________

    <Shervin>
    [7]https://www.w3.org/International/groups/arabic-layout/track/
    actions/open

       [7] 
https://www.w3.org/International/groups/arabic-layout/track/actions/open

    Najib: Re action-7, I’m waiting for feedback on my PR.
    ... I’m waiting for receiving another file and updating my
    text.

    [8]https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/31

       [8] https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/31

    Mostafa: I updated our scripts to add CLDR data too, but there
    still a bunch of missing characters.
    ... There is a list of characters from a national standard, and
    I have a lis of characters from there that are missing from our
    tables.

    Shervin: Some control characters are already in the root.
    ... Characters in the root are also available for every other
    language too.
    ... So, if you add root, a lot of the first characters in your
    listt will be added.

    Richard: Thinking about the purposes of these lists in our
    documents, maybe adding these root characters may not be
    relevant to Persian or Arabic.

    Shervin: These national standards are not extensive. They are
    not being updated regularly.
    ... The root of CLDR has the positive point over that.

    Richard: We can assume that ASCII characters are already there.

    Shervin: +1, and that reduces this list.

    Richard: So, the list we need in our document is the characters
    we need for working with Persian.
    ... And assuming that ASCII is already there we don’t have to
    put ASCII characters in the list.
    ... And so we can have the characters from ICU and CLDR and
    ISIRI 6219, excluding the ASCII ones.
    ... Mostafa, do you agree with that?

    Mostafa: Yes. The only issue I have with that standard is being
    old.

    Shervin: For what’s wrong in these standards, we can ammend
    them, like the isolated characters.

    Richard: Yes, I have to say that isolated ones are very
    important and we should have them.

    Mostafa: So, is there a similar solution for Arabic?

    Shervin: Question for Naib and Richard: does standards for
    computation in Arabic exist?

    Najib: Not that I’m aware of.

    Richard: Me neither.

    Shervin: There are encodings and keboard layouts in the
    operating systems, so there might be sources somewhere.

    Shervin: Najib, can you ask about it?

    Najib: I can search about it.

    Richard: Can we use keyboards as a source for this?

    Shervin: For Persian, these standars of 6219 is inter-related
    with the keyboard standards.
    ... I don’t think we have any characters in the keyboards that
    doesn’t exist in 6219. Do you agree, Mostafa?

    Mostafa: Yes, but I can look, to make sure.

    <r12a> [9]http://r12a.github.io/apps/encodings/

       [9] http://r12a.github.io/apps/encodings/

    <r12a> show all the characters in this encoding:

    Richard: For encodings, you can use this link and see a list of
    all the characters in an encoding.

    Shervin: That’s a good start. Is there a document for these
    encodings?

    Richard: We can see about that.

    Shervin: Mostafa, what do you think?

    Mostafa: I rememeber these old os-based encodings as being
    buggy. Are we sure these lists are free of bugs?

    Richard: No.

    Shervin: I understand, but in lack of a better standard we can
    rely on that and if there are missing characters there, we
    might have other sources for that.
    ... This is still ongoing, then.

    Richard: Action-40 has not been started.

    Mostafa: Action-42 is kind of on-hold. I’m putting my focus on
    the charts.

    Shervin: That makes sense.
    ... Re action-49 I have to see if all the required control
    characters exist in ICU and CLDR.
    ... Re action-50, UN transliteration is pretty good. We can
    stay with that.

    Mostafa: Action-51 is done.

Review of Github issues

    Najib: I can take some more actions.

    Shervin: It would be great if you could take action-37.

    <Shervin>
    [10]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1llcjYqJnwQfN2fx2-T3
    CeoZgAMhCPDwWiqhia9NdQGs/edit

      [10] 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1llcjYqJnwQfN2fx2-T3CeoZgAMhCPDwWiqhia9NdQGs/edit

    Shervin: And I want to talk about it a little bit.
    ... And I’m sharing a document about it.

    <Shervin>
    [11]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pebcAbf9UOL_jRL4zCU
    QidE7BBj-6S_mA4yLXMf-7yw/edit?usp=sharing

      [11] 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pebcAbf9UOL_jRL4zCUQidE7BBj-6S_mA4yLXMf-7yw/edit?usp=sharing

    Shervin: This is controversial topic: which numeral sets should
    we use in Arabic countries?
    ... Roozbeh and I put together this data of what is being
    actually used in all these countries.
    ... These data are based on bank notes, coins, newspapers, …
    ... This is still an onging survery, expanding on public
    education, traffic signs, etc.
    ... I don’t have a preference here, but if people use something
    because of software problems, should we assumg that is the
    common practice?
    ... I like to hear what Najib or Richard say about this.

    Najib: Some newspapers use a mix.
    ... I need to look deeper into it.

    Shervin: You can use this survery and I’m interested and can
    contribute to it.

    Richard: We don’t need to be prescriptive about what Arabic
    users should do. We can be descriptive.

    <najib> +1

    Richard: Say which set of numerals is being used in each
    locale.

    Shervin: Certainly.

    +1

    [12]https://github.com/w3c/alreq/pulls

      [12] https://github.com/w3c/alreq/pulls

    Shervin: Let’s start with the pull requests.

    <Shervin> [13]http://shervinafshar.github.io/alreq/

      [13] http://shervinafshar.github.io/alreq/

    <Shervin> [14]http://shervinafshar.github.io/alreq/#glossary

      [14] http://shervinafshar.github.io/alreq/#glossary

    Shervin: PR #35 is for me. This is about adding
    transliterations to the tables.

    <Shervin>
    [15]https://github.com/shervinafshar/alreq/blob/533d20d94c5e933
    9695a1945188589ac6be6ad98/index.html

      [15] 
https://github.com/shervinafshar/alreq/blob/533d20d94c5e9339695a1945188589ac6be6ad98/index.html

    Shervin: This is what has changed.
    ... As Richard recommended, I changed the direction using CSS,
    rather than HTML.
    ... I looked into RSpec, but was not sure how to check
    compatibility with it. Richard, can elaborate on that?

    <r12a> [16]https://www.w3.org/respec/

      [16] https://www.w3.org/respec/

    Richard: s/RSpec/ReSpec/
    ... ReSpec has definitions for some items, and we can use that
    instead of redefining them.
    ... We’d better apply direction and language in the HTML. That
    makes it easier to read the document without CSS.
    ... Langauge codes for transliterations mention Latin, but this
    is Arabic, just not written in Arabic script.

    <Shervin> "und-Latn-t-und-cyrl: The content is in the Latin
    script, transformed from the Cyrillic script."
    [17]https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6497

      [17] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6497

    Shervin: This example is from an RFC we are working on.
    ... I guess you are right. I’ll pass it to someone more
    familiar with these tags.

    <Shervin> [18]https://github.com/w3c/alreq/pull/34/files

      [18] https://github.com/w3c/alreq/pull/34/files

    Shervin: I can merge PR #34 if no one has any objection with
    it, because it’s only the code for the script.
    ... PR #35 I’ll reject, because the direction should not go in
    the CSS.
    ... I can merge PR #33, but, Najib, you have to update the HTML
    code with Richard’s comments and send another one.
    ... The other one is for Behnam, PR #30. I can merge that, too.
    ... Isn’t there any objection here?

    <Shervin> [19]https://github.com/w3c/alreq/labels/drafting

      [19] https://github.com/w3c/alreq/labels/drafting

    Shervin: So I’ll merge #33, #34, and #35.
    ... Issue #32 is for Najib to provide some text for.

    <Shervin> ACTION Najib to produce text Github issue 32 re:
    deprecated Arabic presentation forms

    <Shervin> ACTION: Najib to produce text Github issue 32 re:
    deprecated Arabic presentation forms [recorded in
    [20]http://www.w3.org/2016/02/23-alreq-minutes.html#action01]

      [20] http://www.w3.org/2016/02/23-alreq-minutes.html#action01]

    Mostafa: Issue #28 is ongoing: we need text for explaining the
    bi-di algorithm concisely and refer to Richard’s extensive
    explanation for more.

    Shervin: Issue #22 has no action. Is there anyone interseted in
    this?
    ... Since it’s supplemental, we can leave it for future.
    ... We used Azzedine’s list and actually merged it into our
    list. We need to give some credit here.

    Richard: You need beside having him as an editor?

    <Shervin> s/Assedine/Azzeddine/

    Shervin: Since he’s not actively drafting the document, can we
    have him as an editor or acknowledge him for his contribution.

    <Shervin> ACTION: Shervin to add acknowledgement for
    Azzeddine's contribution to the glossary. [recorded in
    [21]http://www.w3.org/2016/02/23-alreq-minutes.html#action02]

      [21] http://www.w3.org/2016/02/23-alreq-minutes.html#action02]

    Richard: Since he is not actually an editor of the document, we
    can acknowledge him for his glossary work.

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: Najib to produce text Github issue 32 re:
    deprecated Arabic presentation forms [recorded in
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2016/02/23-alreq-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: Shervin to add acknowledgement for Azzeddine's
    contribution to the glossary. [recorded in
    [23]http://www.w3.org/2016/02/23-alreq-minutes.html#action02]

      [22] http://www.w3.org/2016/02/23-alreq-minutes.html#action01
      [23] http://www.w3.org/2016/02/23-alreq-minutes.html#action02

Summary of Resolutions

    [End of minutes]

Received on Tuesday, 1 March 2016 11:25:39 UTC