RE: 4.13.1 Bread crumb navigation - use of right angle brackets

> From: Jukka K. Korpela [mailto:jukka.k.korpela@kolumbus.fi]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 10:07 AM
> 
[...]
> user from doing so. Conversely, if I do use <ul> in order to make such a thing
> possible, it is not semantic, it is not structural, it is simply authoring with some
> client software in mind. That would be OK if the amount of work needed and
> the possible negative side effects weigh less than the gain. I don’t think we
> know enough about any part of this equation.
[...]

I am hesitant to weigh in about what is useful to an AT user since I am not a true AT user. So I won't.

I disagree that a <ul> containing the links in a breadcrumb is neither semantic nor structural.

A <ul> appears to be the right container to collect a list of links, especially as they are related in concept. I have never coded a breadcrumb in consideration for the user agent or AT. I have coded breadcrumbs with lists because it felt like the most appropriate element for the job.

Granted, I feel a nested, ordered list is the best overall fit, but my experience suggests devs just won't make the extra effort to make it happen.

I really don't want to beat this one to death. If as a user or dev the use of a list isn't an issue, then we shouldn't be complaining about semantic propriety. If an AT user tells us that a list grants additional benefits, then we should take that into consideration and probably default to that pattern instead of telling the AT users they are wrong or the semantics don't suit our preferences.


[...]
> Coding lists is not difficult if you write the markup yourself. It can be a
> different matter if some software generates markup for you or if you would
> convert existing markup to use lists. And then there is the task of styling. You
> would need to style <ul> in this context very differently from its default style
> – to something that you automatically get if you just have links with
> separators between them. Whenever you use some markup and then
> override all of its main effects (the default rendering), the question arises
> whether you are using the right markup.

Visual style should not be a reason to avoid using an element that is a good fit. Very few elements on modern web pages seem to retain the default visual style from the UA. Changing the default rendering isn't necessarily overriding "all of its main effects." Its main effects are probably not the visual style, but the structural meaning it imparts to the page, clues for the UA, for AT, for search engines, and so on.

I think equating visual style with functionality is a risky exercise.

Received on Wednesday, 13 November 2013 15:31:38 UTC