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Re: Proposal: Provide better advice on constraint validation instructions

From: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 22:22:21 +0000
Message-ID: <CA+ri+VkVjkTRW70e5AsvNQcSDF7Wo7PbvHO78G6-E6AbN1+RUg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>
Cc: HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>
Hi Silvia,


Is this mainly about accessibility of @title or about the lack of support
> of @title on touch devices?


both

Assuming it's both, aren't these issues based on a lack of implementation
> rather than errors in the spec?


The spec contains authoring advice that encourages the the use of a feature
that results in inaccessible content, as this pertains to a feature that
has been present since HTML 2.0 I consider that an error in the spec.

Yes they are based on a lack of input device independent implementation in
browsers which has been lacking since the title attribute was first specced
and implemented for 18 years ago.

If we suddenly see a shift in browsers to remedy this then the authoring
advice spec can reflect this.


Wouldn't we be better of with HTML5.1 to encourage implementation rather
> than changing the spec?



If you can think of ways to encourage implementation I am all for it.
There is nothing in the change that discourages or indeed effects
implementation as defined in the spec.


these may be helpful reading:
Using the HTML title attribute  Updated Dec 2012
http://blog.paciellogroup.com/2010/11/using-the-html-title-attribute/

A presentation I made on the title attribute in 2005
http://files.paciellogroup.com/resources/articles/WE05/


with regards

SteveF <http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html>
--
HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
<http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html>


On 14 March 2013 20:48, Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com> wrote:

> Is this mainly about accessibility of @title or about the lack of support
> of @title on touch devices?
> Assuming it's both, aren't these issues based on a lack of implementation
> rather than errors in the spec?
> Wouldn't we be better of with HTML5.1 to encourage implementation rather
> than changing the spec?
>
> Silvia.
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:05 PM, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> a while back I submitted a bug about the HTML spec recommending the use
>> of the title attribute for instructions[1]
>>
>> "the spec suggests user agents use the title attribute for description
>> strings that may be displayed at any time. Due to user agents not
>> implementing 'tooltips' accessibly, the content is not available to
>> keyboard only users until an incorrect pattern has been put in.
>>
>> I am proposing to add/modify advice and code examples (in the relevant
>> section [2]) on how to provide instructions to users, that are not reliant
>> upon the use of the title attribute.
>>
>> The methods I am going to recommend all involve adding the instructions
>> in text either as part of the label or associated vi aria-describedby :
>>
>> example using the label
>> <label> Part number:
>>  <input pattern="[0-9][A-Z]{3}" name="part">
>> A part number is a digit followed by three uppercase letters. </label>
>>
>> example using aria-describedby
>>
>> <label> Part number:
>>  <input pattern="[0-9][A-Z]{3}" name="part"
>> aria-describedby="instructions">
>>  </label>
>>
>> <p id="instructions"> A part number is a digit followed by three
>> uppercase letters.</p>
>>
>>
>> I envisage that this advice can be modified to recommend use of the title
>> attribute at a time when it is interoperably implemented in an input device
>> independent way.
>>
>> [1] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16835
>> [2]
>> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/forms.html#attr-input-pattern
>>
>> feedback welcome!
>>
>> with regards
>>
>> SteveF <http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html>
>> --
>> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
>> <http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html>
>>
>
>
Received on Thursday, 14 March 2013 22:23:30 GMT

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