W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html@w3.org > February 2013

Re: using the data* attribute to identify element sub roles

From: Charles McCathie Nevile <chaals@yandex-team.ru>
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 14:23:56 +0100
To: "Silvia Pfeiffer" <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>, "Steve Faulkner" <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Cc: "Anselm Hannemann" <info@anselm-hannemann.com>, public-html@w3.org
Message-ID: <op.wspd56hvy3oazb@chaals.local>
On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 10:50:25 +0100, Steve Faulkner  
<faulkner.steve@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Silvia,
>> Why not use microdata for this? E.g.
>>
>> <h1>heading</h1> <p itemprop="subheading">subheading</p>
>>
>>>> <article itemprop="comment"> blog post comment </article>
>
> will look into that.

Yep, microdata or RDFa / RDFaLite are the things you are looking for.  
(Your experience and thoughts are probably useful to the long and painful  
process of deciding whether we are going to settle on one of these, or  
whether we need to maintain multiple technologies over the long term).

cheers

Chaals

> regards
> Steve
>
> On 18 February 2013 08:57, Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>  
> wrote:
>> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Steve Faulkner  
>> <faulkner.steve@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Silvia,
>>> I realise what the current definition of data-* is
>>
>> The spec guarantees that it won't change. That's what I was trying to  
>> point out.
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/single-page.html#extensibility
>>
>>
>>> I am exploring possibilities of how to resolve the use case I  
>>> described in my previous email. i.e. how to identify sub roles in HTML
>>
>> As a Web developer or in the browser? What's the effect of identifying  
>> subroles? Does it bear the meaning "this element is of type xxx"?
>>
>> Why not use microdata for this? E.g.
>>
>> <h1>heading</h1> <p itemprop="subheading">subheading</p>
>>
>>>> <article itemprop="comment"> blog post comment </article>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Silvia.
>>
>>> data-* may well not be the appropriate method as i said "wild idea"
>>>
>>>
>>> regards
>>> SteveF
>>>
>>>
>>> On 18 February 2013 08:26, Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>  
>>> wrote:
>>>> @data-xxx attributes are for authors only. We don't do anything in  
>>>> browsers with them and therefore will not standardise any @data-xxx  
>>>> attributes in the >>>>HTML spec (see the Extensibility section):
>>>>
>>>> "Authors can include data for inline client-side scripts or  
>>>> server-side site-wide scripts to process using the data->>>>*=""  
>>>> attributes. These are guaranteed to never be touched by browsers, and  
>>>> allow scripts to include data on HTML >>>>elements that scripts can  
>>>> then look for and process."
>>>>
>>>> It's the safe way for Web developers to use custom attributes so,  
>>>> when you implement a WebSite you're free to do whatever you want with  
>>>> them.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Silvia.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Steve Faulkner  
>>>> <faulkner.steve@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Ansel,
>>>>> use cases, yes.
>>>>>
>>>>> the use cases I had in mind is that currently the definitions of  
>>>>> some elements have differing uses:
>>>>>
>>>>> article can idenity a 1000 word essay, a 100 word summary of said  
>>>>> essay and a 5 word comment on the same essay, but there is no method  
>>>>> defined to >>>>>idenitfy the different uses. If there was a defined  
>>>>> method, a range of software could make use of it such as search  
>>>>> engines and assistive technology.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> regards
>>>>> Stevef
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 18 February 2013 07:59, Anselm Hannemann  
>>>>> <info@anselm-hannemann.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> From: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>Date: Mon, 18 Feb  
>>>>>>> 2013 07:26:52 +0000
>>>>>>> Message-ID:  
>>>>>>> <CA+ri+Vn+zcfZT5BP2w3x4WNwu2o2h9GvyPff0znDPVzqaxJYvg@mail.gmail.com> 
>>>>>>> To: HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>NOTE: this is just a wild idea.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allow the data attribute [1] to be used to identify element  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sub roles:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> examples:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <h1>heading</h1> <p data-p="subheading">subheading</p>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <article data-article="comment"> blog post comment  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> </article>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allow data-elementname="subRole" pairs to be added to a  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public registry.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thoughts?
>>>>>> I don't understand the logic of the data-attribute yet. Shouldn't  
>>>>>> there be a reference to which the attribute refers?
>>>>>> In that case to the h1-element. That means, for me it would be  
>>>>>> logical to have:
>>>>>>> <h1>heading</h1> <p data-h1="subheading">subheading</p>
>>>>>> But then the semantics is away for the element attribute itself.
>>>>>> I think I have a lack on use-cases here to can think of if this  
>>>>>> could work and is useful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> / Anselm
>>>>>> -----------
>>>>>> Anselm Hannemann
>>>>>> @helloanselm
>>>>>>> [1]  
>>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/dom.html#embedding-custom-non-visible-data-with-the-data-*-attributes
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- with regards
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steve Faulkner
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>


-- 
Charles McCathie Nevile - Consultant (web standards) CTO Office, Yandex
chaals@yandex-team.ru Find more at http://yandex.com
Received on Monday, 18 February 2013 13:24:38 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Monday, 18 February 2013 13:24:38 GMT