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Re: Is the current definition of the article element in HTML useful?

From: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 12:21:48 +0000
Message-ID: <CA+ri+Vk3GDbkwyBui+Rxa8zG2aOtvVEFXt-i1WLRr4b6f-D=4g@mail.gmail.com>
To: Charles McCathie Nevile <chaals@yandex-team.ru>
Cc: public-html@w3.org
Hi Chaals,

>Yes. Likewise for search engines (and probably other systems that try to
process web content), people using the article element in this way is
actually helpful.

can you give us some insight on how it would be more useful for a serach
engine than using a list to markup comments?

for example:

<article>

<h1> my blog post</h1>

<p> this is my first post </p>

<article>
<h2> comments</h2>

<ol>
<li> <p> comment </p>
<li> <p> comment </p>
<li> <p> comment </p>
</ol>

</article>
</article>


>Skipping the use of article because screenreaders are overly verbose might
be a short-term hack that breaks a long-term benefit, assuming that
screenreaders >will improve their handling.

This isn't the only issue btw. Another issue is that the set size is not
defined/exposed when articles are used where as they are when a list is
used.

so there is no clear method for AT to know the start and end of the
comments content when marked up using article alone.

regards
steveF

On 1 February 2013 11:38, Charles McCathie Nevile <chaals@yandex-team.ru>wrote:

> On Wed, 23 Jan 2013 23:02:13 +0100, Kornel LesiƄski <kornel@geekhood.net>
> wrote:
>
>  On Wed, 23 Jan 2013 13:06:29 -0000, Bruce Lawson <brucel@opera.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  Is there a reason for any semanric to describe a comment, though? does
>>> anyone benefit from
>>>
>>> <article>
>>> <h1>My wonderful Mankini</h1>
>>> There's only one letter difference between "mankini" and "mankind".
>>>
>>> <h2> Two comments</h2>
>>>
>>> <article>lol</article>
>>> <article>u SUK</article>
>>>
>>> </article>
>>>
>>> over
>>>
>>> <article>
>>> <h1>My wonderful Mankini</h1>
>>> There's only one letter difference between "mankini" and "mankind".
>>>
>>> <h2> Two comments</h2>
>>>
>>> <div>lol</div>
>>> <div>u SUK</div>
>>>
>>> </article>
>>>
>>
>> Goal of applications like Readability, Instapaper, Pocket and Reader mode
>> in Safari is to display content of page's main article without comments or
>> other distractions.
>>
>> Currently these applications use heuristics to achieve that (AFAIK things
>> like ratio of text to elements, whitelist/blacklist of class names) and I
>> presume that nested <article> could be a useful input for such algorithm.
>>
>
> Yes. Likewise for search engines (and probably other systems that try to
> process web content), people using the article element in this way is
> actually helpful.
>
> Skipping the use of article because screenreaders are overly verbose might
> be a short-term hack that breaks a long-term benefit, assuming that
> screenreaders will improve their handling.
>
> We already know that they usually take a long time to do things like this
> (For example header navigation still wasn't in JAWS in 2000 as far as I
> could tell, despite having been implemented for years in other systems, and
> now being one of the most critical functions for users).
>
> cheers
>
> Chaals
>
> --
> Charles McCathie Nevile - Consultant (web standards) CTO Office, Yandex
>       chaals@yandex-team.ru         Find more at http://yandex.com
>
>


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Received on Friday, 1 February 2013 12:22:56 UTC

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