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Re: HTML5 should not 'strongly encourage' authors to use only H1 level headinsg

From: Charles McCathie Nevile <chaals@yandex-team.ru>
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 23:13:45 +0200
To: "Robin Berjon" <robin@w3.org>, faulkner.steve@gmail.com, "Sam Ruby" <rubys@intertwingly.net>
Cc: public-html@w3.org, "HTML Accessibility Task Force" <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
Message-ID: <op.wmuvw7l9y3oazb@chaals.local>
On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 21:50:53 +0200, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>  
wrote:

> Has a bug report been opened on this?

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=19741

cheers

Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
>
>
> -----Original message-----
>> From: Charles McCathie Nevile <chaals@yandex-team.ru>
>> To: Robin Berjon <robin@w3.org>, Steve Faulkner  
>> <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
>> Cc: HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>, HTML Accessibility Task Force  
>> <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
>> Sent: Sat, Oct 27, 2012 17:33:05 GMT+00:00
>> Subject: Re: HTML5 should not 'strongly encourage' authors to use only  
>> H1 level headinsg
>>
>> On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 16:22:32 +0200, Steve Faulkner
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Robin,
>>>> Actually, the outline algorithm is currently up on the "at risk" list. 
>>>> So I don't think that we should be removing anything that relies on it 
>>>> without having removed the actual source.
>>>>
>>>> I therefore suggest that if we do remove the outlining algo at the end 
>>>> of the spec, we should likely remove this advice as well. But not 
>>>> sooner.
>>>
>>> The text in question is non normative advice, whether or not the  
>>> outlinealgorithm goes or not is immaterial. The issue I am raising is  
>>> that wehave bad advice in the spec, that is urging authors to construct 
>>> outlines for non existent consumers to the detriment of all exisiting 
>>> consumers.
>>
>> Seconded. The current text is inherently bad advice unless the outline 
>> algorithm is ubiquitously implemented, since it suggests doing something 
>> that might work in future and breaks existing tools.
>>
>> Were the outline algo implemented anywhere it is still debatable whether 
>> it is good advice to only use h1.
>>
>> Indeed, the final paragraph at the end of 
>> http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/the-aside-element.html#the-h1,-h2,-h3,-h4,-h5,-and-h6-elements 
>> is a statement that authors may choose either approach according to  
>> theirpreference.
>>
>> I agree with Steve, the text in question should be removed.
>>
>> cheers
>>
>> Chaals
>>
>>> On 26 October 2012 20:50, Robin Berjon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Steve,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 26/10/2012 10:46 , Steve Faulkner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The HTML5 spec currently states the following advice [1]:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Sections may contain headings of any rank
>>>>>
>>>>> <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/the-aside-element.html#rank>, but
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> authors are strongly encouraged to either use only |h1
>>>>>
>>>>> <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/the-aside-element.html#the-h1,-h2,-h3,-h4,-h5,-and-h6-elements>|
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> elements"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Given that this advice is predicated on the implementation of the
>>>>>
>>>>> outline algorithm in browsers which has not occured and by all
>>>>>
>>>>> anecdotal indications this is unlikely to happen soon if at all, I
>>>>>
>>>>> suggest that it is not appropriate to include this advice in the  
>>>>> spec.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Actually, the outline algorithm is currently up on the "at risk" list. 
>>>> So I don't think that we should be removing >>anything that relies on 
>>>> it without having removed the actual source.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I therefore suggest that if we do remove the outlining algo at the end 
>>>> of the spec, we should likely remove this advice as >>well. But not 
>>>> sooner.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Robin Berjon - http://berjon.com/ - @robinberjon
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --Charles McCathie Nevile - Consultant (web standards) CTO Office,  
>> Yandex
>> chaals@yandex-team.ru Find more at http://yandex.com
>>



-- 
Charles McCathie Nevile - Consultant (web standards) CTO Office, Yandex
chaals@yandex-team.ru Find more at http://yandex.com
Received on Saturday, 27 October 2012 21:14:44 UTC

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